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3D printed RS mainspring winder project for hobbyists


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24 minutes ago, DavidJ said:

 

It's not a pocket watch spring its from a 1960s Russian watch 10mm inner diameter barrel size. I'll do a video tomorrow maybe it will help show the issue better.

@Neverenoughwatches sure i can hand wind the spring back into the barrel no problem, I was kind of hoping this would work as hand winding is always a crap shoot in my experience and as you say not best practice. 

No problem David,  just a thought that gets you out of a pickle. 

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10 hours ago, DavidJ said:

Here is a video am i going about this the right way? Do i just move the spring out the way like this or do i have this all wrong. 

Thanks for taking a look and for helping out 🙂

Sorry could not edit the post but i guess i'm trying to say at the start of the video 90% of the vintage spring is under the winder housing (compared with about 20% of a modern spring ), so i ether have to pull out 90% of the spring to get started or i need to push in 90% of the spring which i can't do.

Hi David, thanks for the video. You seem to be doing it correctly, but the barrel walls are in the way. This is a 10mm spring, so you are using the 10mm winder set, correct?

It seems to me that you have found a limitation with the winder, in the sense that the barrel walls are too thick for your particular mainspring.

Some solutions:
1. If we were to reduce the thickness of the wall, do you think this will solve the issue?
2. If the opening angle was wider, will this work?

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1 hour ago, Zero said:

…It seems to me that you have found a limitation with the winder, in the sense that the barrel walls are too thick for your particular mainspring…

That‘s it!

I think that this nice winder design reaches its limit with barrel diameters of about 10mm and below. I recently wound the spring (D=7.5mm) of a ladies watch where the slot for the arbour hook was just 0,25mm wide. No way with a staple pin.

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3 hours ago, Zero said:

Hi David, thanks for the video. You seem to be doing it correctly, but the barrel walls are in the way. This is a 10mm spring, so you are using the 10mm winder set, correct?

It seems to me that you have found a limitation with the winder, in the sense that the barrel walls are too thick for your particular mainspring.

Some solutions:
1. If we were to reduce the thickness of the wall, do you think this will solve the issue?
2. If the opening angle was wider, will this work?

Hi Zero, yes i'm using a 10mm winder set.

Reducing the thickness of the barrel wall, I think would help and also a slimmer version of the winder base might help to move the spring down and out of the way. I do a lot of vintage stuff and most of it tends to be this sort of spring with 11mm or smaller barrels.

If you make changes i'd be happy to test springs through the new design, great project btw 

All the best

David

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2 hours ago, Kalanag said:

I recently wound the spring (D=7.5mm) of a ladies watch where the slot for the arbour hook was just 0,25mm wide. No way with a staple pin.

Yes, a standard staple wont fit a some 7mm+ mainsprings unless you file it down. The other way to do this is to just purchase 0.2mm spring steel, and then fashion it into an arbor hook instead. This should be very easy now with the help of the staple jig. Here is an example purchase link to buy these (choose 0.2mm), hardware shops also sell them: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000995284553.html

1 hour ago, DavidJ said:

If you make changes i'd be happy to test springs through the new design, great project btw 

Great, because it is quite difficult for me to come by these type of vintage mainsprings. I do work on a bunch of Vostoks/Raketas, but they are mostly from the 80s. I will send you links to a bunch of experimental 10mm designs via PM. I'm sure you are fully capable of handwinding your way out and moving on, appreciate you spending time to make the video to help the rest of us. Hopefully a better version comes out of this. Thanks.

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42 minutes ago, Zero said:

Great, because it is quite difficult for me to come by these type of vintage mainsprings. I do work on a bunch of Vostoks/Raketas, but they are mostly from the 80s. I will send you links to a bunch of experimental 10mm designs via PM. I'm sure you are fully capable of handwinding your way out and moving on, appreciate you spending time to make the video to help the rest of us. Hopefully a better version comes out of this. Thanks.

I'm very happy to do the testing i can even video the tests. On this project I'm happy to pitch in however i can.

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8 minutes ago, JohnFrum said:

Question: the Seiko 7s26 with barrel ID of 10.5 mm would require a 10.5 winder housing? 

It should be a bit smaller than that to allow easy transfert. However no perfectly matching set of housing and arbor exist to be ready purchased. I recommend not to take apart Seiko barrels, because there is no benefit to gain in doing that.

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1 hour ago, JohnFrum said:

Question: the Seiko 7s26 with barrel ID of 10.5 mm would require a 10.5 winder housing? 

I'd use a 10.0 or a 9.5. You usually want to be at least one size smaller than your barrel diameter.

1 hour ago, jdm said:

It should be a bit smaller than that to allow easy transfert. However no perfectly matching set of housing and arbor exist to be ready purchased. I recommend not to take apart Seiko barrels, because there is no benefit to gain in doing that.

Zero's designs allow for ANY size of housing. It can be a little tricky to figure out the steps, but once you do, you can print any size. I am NOT trying to push my stuff, I am just trying to offer solutions. If you don't have  3D printer: I am selling these on eBay, I can print any custom size you may need: https://www.ebay.com/itm/125428348675

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On 7/26/2022 at 5:10 PM, AndyShap said:

I am selling these on eBay, I can print any custom size you may need: https://www.ebay.com/itm/125428348675

I have added your eBay link to the README for those who do not have 3D printers, or those who would just rather buy it. I have also added known issues (and workarounds) in the issues section to be on the safe side, eventually I hope to resolve them all: https://github.com/vishnu350/rs-mainspring-winder/issues. Feel free to add workarounds/suggestions to specific issues there.

 

On 7/26/2022 at 3:31 PM, jdm said:

It should be a bit smaller than that to allow easy transfert. However no perfectly matching set of housing and arbor exist to be ready purchased.

@jdm About this. In your opinion, what winder size numbers would truly make sense here? Eg. if the winder was labelled 10mm but has a preset 5% reduced size to be able to properly handle a 10mm mainspring (thus making it 9.5mm or so), or just straight up 10mm?

Edited by Zero
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So i tried the prototype Zero was kind enough to send my way and i have to say it's better for vintage springs.

Alas my spring broke but i think that was due to it being very old not the winder. I still can't say if the walls would have been strong enough but I think it's worth including this small version along with the main files.

Its definitely helpful. Next spring i come across i'll try again should not be long.

David

 

 

IMG_20220729_212939.jpg

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13 hours ago, DavidJ said:

So i tried the prototype Zero was kind enough to send my way and i have to say it's better for vintage springs.

Thanks for testing it out, that is very good news. Though unfortunately your vintage mainspring seems "tired" or "set" (looking at the pics), and needed changing regardless of what you did. Also might explain why you had issues flexing it to fit the winder in the first place, even though the thick walls were of no help.

I will work on integrating this version into the set, need to get the math correct so that all the other winders sizes are also generated correctly. Hope to see a better version yet.

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  • 4 weeks later...

@Zero@AndyShap

Hey Guys, I stumbled upon the Github while going through Andy's comments on the Retro Facebook group. I am very excited and eager to try this out as this was one of my stumbling blocks in going ahead with my hobby.

I'll be using a 3rd party 3D printing service in my country (India) and what i wanted to know was whether to get it printed in PLA, ABS or PETG. The costs are not that far apart between them and there isn't a substantial difference between 50% and 100% infill settings. So what print settings do you guys advise?

Thanks 🙂

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3 hours ago, Piyush said:

@Zero@AndyShap

Hey Guys, I stumbled upon the Github while going through Andy's comments on the Retro Facebook group. I am very excited and eager to try this out as this was one of my stumbling blocks in going ahead with my hobby.

I'll be using a 3rd party 3D printing service in my country (India) and what i wanted to know was whether to get it printed in PLA, ABS or PETG. The costs are not that far apart between them and there isn't a substantial difference between 50% and 100% infill settings. So what print settings do you guys advise?

Thanks 🙂

As you may know, I am now selling these on eBay.  By this time, I have printed MANY of the kits and housings.  I print in PLA and have no issues whatsoever. I think printing in PETG or ABS shouldn't be an issue at all.

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On 5/17/2021 at 1:40 AM, Zero said:

Hi guys,

I have started a project in Github to generate all the possible types of mainspring winder sizes from a single base design using a Python script.
https://github.com/vishnu350/rs-mainspring-winder

The STL files can be downloaded from the release section:
https://github.com/vishnu350/rs-mainspring-winder/releases

This project is a 3D printable "Rising Sun" watch mainspring winder for hobbyists. Mainspring winding for hobbyists has always been a problem, as most of us cannot afford the $1000 Bergeon set. Or sometimes, the appropriate size just isn't available. This forces most casual hobbyists to resort to handwinding or other similar stunts, which is not ideal.

This mainspring winder is designed using FreeCAD to be easily 3D printed with no post-processing/finishing required. It will approximately cost $5/set by most 3D print service providers (use eBay to find someone near you). The design is parameterized, allowing you to dynamically change the size/dimensions of the winder and the entire design will be recalculated accordingly. The RS mainspring winder is a pleasure to use when constructed correctly, and can wind in both clockwise and counter-clockwise directions.

I have uploaded a video describing the 3D printed RS winder parts and how to use it.

Will appreciate any help or feedback as to further improve the design, as I actually do not own a 3D printer (I pay for each print). I also do not know the complete range of sizes that is required to be uploaded into the release section. Also, the optimal design parameters may still not be perfect, but it seems to work pretty well for me at the moment.

Thanks.

Hello @Zero,

Great to meet you!

I just came across your really interesting mainspring winder design and I am wondering if I can ask you a few questions about it, and how I might go about producing it without running afoul of any claim(s) that you may have on it from an intellectual or commercial perpective?

I think it's a really great idea but I am wondering if there's any improvements or refinements you would incorporate now that you've received some "in the field" feedback.

I wonder about what sizes would be most popular (in mm) and also how you feel about me making tweaks to the design and materials on my side?

g.
----

Edited by Gramham
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Hi @Gramham, nice to meet you. The design is free and open-source (free as in free beer). You are free to use it or change it as you please, you can read the CC 4.0 license to know more. Eg. there is a member here (AndyShap) who prints it as a service, and he seems to have gotten some pretty good feedback on his page.

Yes, it has gone through many iterations and is currently on v0.9, complete changelog is on GitHub. However, v0.86 is currently the most proven and tested version. You can download them here, and read the changelogs if your want to know more: https://github.com/vishnu350/rs-mainspring-winder/releases

Have you started on Mark's classes? You can print anything you want as you need them, just measure the mainspring barrel diameter of your chosen practice movement and go for it.

On 8/23/2022 at 12:46 PM, Piyush said:

I'll be using a 3rd party 3D printing service in my country (India) and what i wanted to know was whether to get it printed in PLA, ABS or PETG. The costs are not that far apart between them and there isn't a substantial difference between 50% and 100% infill settings.

PLA should be the best as most printing services are more familiar with this material and you will get better quality out of it. For infill, i would recommend 100% as I have never tried anything less than that. Do let us know if 50% worked for you.

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12 hours ago, Zero said:

Hi @Gramham, nice to meet you. The design is free and open-source (free as in free beer). You are free to use it or change it as you please, you can read the CC 4.0 license to know more. Eg. there is a member here (AndyShap) who prints it as a service, and he seems to have gotten some pretty good feedback on his page.

Yes, it has gone through many iterations and is currently on v0.9, complete changelog is on GitHub. However, v0.86 is currently the most proven and tested version. You can download them here, and read the changelogs if your want to know more: https://github.com/vishnu350/rs-mainspring-winder/releases

Have you started on Mark's classes? You can print anything you want as you need them, just measure the mainspring barrel diameter of your chosen practice movement and go for it.

PLA should be the best as most printing services are more familiar with this material and you will get better quality out of it. For infill, i would recommend 100% as I have never tried anything less than that. Do let us know if 50% worked for you.

Hello @Zero,

Thanks for your feedback and I will review the resources you mention.

g.
----

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On 8/23/2022 at 9:43 PM, AndyShap said:

As you may know, I am now selling these on eBay.  By this time, I have printed MANY of the kits and housings.  I print in PLA and have no issues whatsoever. I think printing in PETG or ABS shouldn't be an issue at all.

I'll do that and let you know. One last thing before I go ahead...

I am going to use it primarily for the Seiko 6xxx and 70xx movements so:

(1) Am I correct in choosing the 10.5mm housing/ plunger ?

(2) What size arbour rod is best for it ? I read in a youtube comment that the 2mm base/ rod is not suitable for the seiko 6xxx mainspring.

 

Thanks

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 7 months later...

This project is a great resource to hobbyists.  Thanks for making it available.

I printed up a couple of winders (9.0 and 10.0), but have yet to test.  When fitting up the winder base to the plungers, there seems to be more slop than I expected between the dowel and hole in the plunger.

I printed these with 0.12 layer height but the text didn't come out too well.  Had you considered eliminating the "M"?  Then you would have some extra space to increase the font size.

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I first tried with a manual mainspring and the 9.0 mm winder.  Got it wound into the winder.  When I pulled off the winder base, the staple was bent up some.  I was able to load the mainspring into the barrel successfully.  That go me rather excited.

I next tried with an automatic mainspring and the 10.0 mm winder.  Got it wound into the winder.  When I pulled off the winder base, the two ends were sticking a bit out into one of the pusher slots.  So, I had to remove it from the winder and try again.  Got to the point of getting the bridle into the winder and the eye end of the mainspring broke off.  The staple was quite mangled.  So, I need to source a new mainspring.  Not sure if I was doing something wrong or not.

Now, if there was a way to use the barrel arbor itself to wind the spring into the winder base, then that would seem better than using staples.

20230412_205548.jpg

20230407_135843.jpg

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19 hours ago, gpraceman said:

I next tried with an automatic mainspring and the 10.0 mm winder.  Got it wound into the winder.  When I pulled off the winder base, the two ends were sticking a bit out into one of the pusher slots.  So, I had to remove it from the winder and try again.  Got to the point of getting the bridle into the winder and the eye end of the mainspring broke off.  The staple was quite mangled.  So, I need to source a new mainspring.  Not sure if I was doing something wrong or not.

Hi. Some points that may be of help:

  1. How did you latch the arbour hook to the mainspring? Please refer to the wiki for diagrams: Attaching-the-Arbour-Hook-to-the-Mainspring.
    If you used incorrect styles when latching, the hook will get mangled and the spring may deform.
  2. From your pictures, its seems like you are working on a vintage mainspring. The old types are made from a different material from modern mainsprings, and get "tired" or "set". They may deform/break no matter what you do, due to age. Please refer to the wiki: Selecting-the-correct-winder-size-for-your-mainspring

 

On 4/17/2023 at 5:38 PM, gpraceman said:

I printed up a couple of winders (9.0 and 10.0), but have yet to test.  When fitting up the winder base to the plungers, there seems to be more slop than I expected between the dowel and hole in the plunger.

This is intentional by design, to allow for varying sizes for the dowel pins (you may choose to use thicker ones), and also to be forgiving to folks with lower end printers. There should be minimal friction between the dowel pin and the plunger to allow unobstructed winding action, so a little slop is better than a tight fit.

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