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keyless works on 1904 Elgin Grade 211

arron
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arron WRT Addict

arron

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Good morning,

 

I've started a new project to fix the keyless works on this PW.  It's got me a bit perplexed.  In the resting mode (not pushing or pulling the crown) if you turn the crown the hands may at times move and at other times will not move.  if you push in and keep pressure on the crown and turn, it winds the watch--there is only slight give when you push and no significant clicking sound.  pulling on the crown doesn't seem to do anything.    has someone before me put the parts in wrong?  does anyone have a diagram of what the keyless works is supposed to look like.  or maybe there is a part missing.  btw, i did take out the crown stem and it seems like it's in functioning condition, albeit with a bit of corrosion.

 

 

Thanks and i hope you all had a nice weekend.  Arron.

elgin movement2.jpg

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arron WRT Addict

arron

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I thought i'd share this for any others having a similar problem.  I didn't know but there is a metal sleeve inside the stem tube. That regulates the working of the stem as you pull it out to set the time or push it in to wind.  There is a five part series on YT that discusses the workings and fine tuning of this mechanism.  I've inserted just the first part of the series. There is a special tool (a sleeve removal tool) that is used to fine tune or remove the sleeve.  I do not know if adjusting or replacing the sleeve will resolve my issue as I am waiting for the tool which i purchased to arrive so I can take out and inspect the sleeve.

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PWFDmedic Member

PWFDmedic

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On 5/8/2021 at 9:16 PM, arron said:

I thought i'd share this for any others having a similar problem.  I didn't know but there is a metal sleeve inside the stem tube. That regulates the working of the stem as you pull it out to set the time or push it in to wind.  There is a five part series on YT that discusses the workings and fine tuning of this mechanism.  I've inserted just the first part of the series. There is a special tool (a sleeve removal tool) that is used to fine tune or remove the sleeve.  I do not know if adjusting or replacing the sleeve will resolve my issue as I am waiting for the tool which i purchased to arrive so I can take out and inspect the sleeve.

Just wanted to thank you for this.  I know it's been a while since you posted it, but it's still helping new people.  The very first watch I managed to completely disassemble, clean, reassemble, and get working had this problem.  I've spent ages trying to figure out why this was happening, and compared the keyless works to other movements and couldn't see a difference.  It never occurred to me it could be sleeve depth.  After a quick disassembly and four or five turns of the wrench, I heard a click and the problem was solved.  I was so pleased I broke the crystal!!!  But that I know how to replace, so thanks again!!!!

Edited by PWFDmedic
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      By ManSkirtBrew · Posted

      Unfortunately I'm not that lucky. I started on the train side and after I noticed the binding I pulled everything out except the driving wheel to rule everything else out. It still binds. I'm going to double check that the pinion is fully seated on the staff first, then if no joy I'll push the bridge jewel up a fraction of a mm. Fingers crossed!
    • Waggy
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      By Waggy · Posted

      Happy to have helped, great way to start the day with a win! 🥳
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      By doober · Posted

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    • GuyMontag
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      By GuyMontag · Posted

      I have that French tech sheet too, it is a little different than the English one (eg, it doesn't have the auto works diagram). BTW, it looks like you are looking up the case number in the 1979 ABC supplement. The 1974 ABC catalog does have the 3093 case. As you determined it takes the 1222-5 crystal.  When I serviced my President 'A' (which also takes that crystal), I was able to fit a 29.8 crystal from my DPA crystal assortment. Those are, in my opinion, a great deal. The assortment comes with 10 sizes each from 27.8mm to 32.4mm in 0.2 increments. I pretty much use them for any non-armored crystal that takes a high dome crystal. I think they no longer make them but Cousins has still has some in stock but when I bought them they were around $40 for the set and now they are around $100. Still, at 40 cents a crystal it's still a good deal. For the large driving wheel, I remember I once assembled the keyless/motion works first and when I placed the large driving wheel it was interfering with the setting wheel on the dial side as the teeth were not fully meshing and it wouldn't fully seat. If that isn't the issue I got nothing and am looking forward to see how you solve it 🙂
    • Waggy
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      By Waggy · Posted

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