Mainspring winders

[Eckehardt]

On 3/12/2017 at 5:51 AM, chrisdt said:

Hi Guys

At an auction recently I purchased a box of watch mainspring winders which cost very little money as most people did not know what they were. Now not having done any mainspring work yet I thought I would try them out. The K & D 126 is complete but can anyone give me advice on how to use it please? I know that the right size  winder fits into the end of the little handle and then there is a little rod and extension piece? which go through the handle to push the spring out so the question is how does the little crank handle wind the spring in as its a very loose fit. The other item in the auction was not named but consisted of a tube with finger grips. ten different size winders and ten different crank handles. Any help would be appreciated

Chris

I have the same one. Just picked it up for $18. It also included a few other pen type winders as well. ( Not by the same company but made in France. The principal is straightforward with these. The different winding dies, lock into the extractor real simple. You just have to know which way the spring goes in.

[KarlvonKoln]

On 1/4/2014 at 4:41 PM, 64americandeluxe said:

Here is another set that I am looking at (see below).  Any advantages or cons to using the KD 126,127 or 128?  It looks like the only difference between the 127 and 128 are the barrel sizes they'll accept.  The 126 is the "Robbins Type" but I am not sure what the significance of that is.

Thank you!

Roger

Hey!  That's my set!  Well, one of them anyway.  I use the K&D Robbins type mostly for pocket watches.  It works quite nicely and I'm rather fond of it.  It can be used with larger wristwatches but anything midrange or smaller would need a set with smaller barrels (which is my other K&D).

[bojan1990]

Question for people who work with Seikos: series 6 work fine with left handed nr. 7 bergeon arbors. I read somewhere series 7 use left handed nr. 6 arbor. So I am little bit confused since I am not sure should I buy left handed nr. 6 or nr. 7 arbor? Thanks.

[arron]

Hi Guys,

I am looking to invest in a used mainspring winder for pocket watches.  I've researched the issue online but it's still not clear to me what all the options are that might suit my need, which is to be able to wind springs for the most common pocket watch sizes from size 18 down.  I'm looking to spend under $200.  Answers to my specific questions/assumptions or general input on the best set to buy appreciated.  Thank you.

 

Watch craft: this has six barrels and two winders.  It (the ones on ebay) says "pocket" on the box cover and I assume that is the model for pocket watches, not the model for wrist watches.  Is that correct?  Does this cover up to size 18?

 

K&D 125A:  This one requires to be placed in a vice which seems a bit more cumbersome.  I'm not sure what the difference is between this one and the KD 128.

K&D 126: I've read that this may not cover size 18.  is that correct?

K&D 128: This one requires to be placed in a vice which seems a bit more cumbersome.  I'm guessing a full set will do most PW sizes including size 18.

Adjustable: this is the kind that I've seen jdrichard use on UT.  I'm not sure how the sizes work and what is considered a full set for pocket watches.

 

Any other I should consider?

[KarlvonKoln]

I practically specialize in pocket watches. And I use my K&D 126 for nearly all of them.  The largest barrel worked for my size-18 Longines, but I do not know if its size of barrel would also be typical of American size-18s.  But even if not, it will cover a lot of ground and it works rather nicely. 

Edited March 19, 2021 by KarlvonKoln

[arron]

thanks for the useful information KarlvonKoln.  i appreciate it.

[richiesgr]

Hi 

At this point my main problem to service a mouvement is the mainspring. The options excluding service by hand of course are:

• Difficult to buy a new mainspring on ebay and waiting to receive it (weeks)
• Very expensive Bergeon set like the 5356 => 1050 pounds (ouch!!)

So I bought a Chinese set like you know for ETA the main problem for me it's that I don't have a lot of ETA mouvement so at this moment the issue most of the time is that the arbors provided are really to small so they don't catch the spring => useless.

My idea is to buy just a bergeon by size like these and using it with the Chinese set.

So my question do you think it'll work ? and if yes what size should I buy 4,5 or 6 

Thanks and hope it would help other people struggling with this mainspring winder

[LittleWatchShop]

Here is an old thread on winders.

I have several sets of winders. My favorite is the K&D set (picture I got off the interweb--too lazy to shoot my own).  You can find these from time to time on Ebay.  Not cheap.

Edited April 27, 2021 by LittleWatchShop

[richiesgr]

1 hour ago, LittleWatchShop said:

 

I have several sets of winders. My favorite is the K&D set (picture I got off the interweb--too lazy to shoot my own).  You can find these from time to time on Ebay.  Not cheap.

 

Yes I saw these but are they ok for wristwatch I thought only for clock. 

Do you know if these are ok ? https://www.ebay.com/itm/373549560649?hash=item56f949f349:g:G04AAOSwHYdgf0pZ

Edited April 27, 2021 by richiesgr

[LittleWatchShop]

The set i linked to ebay are 4-11 mm sizes.  They are for watches.

The ones you posted are fine too, but not adjustable.  I like adjustable.

[LittleWatchShop]

I have a set like this but I do not use them.

[richiesgr]

16 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

I have a set like this but I do not use them.

Is it ok to ask why ?

[LittleWatchShop]

9 minutes ago, richiesgr said:

Is it ok to ask why ?

Sure, it is ok.  Have not invested a lot of brain power into my choice. I always pick the K&D winder because: 1) it is well-engineered, 2) adjustable, 3) always works for me,  and 4) it in the front of the drawer!!  Why my dad bought four different sets of winders is a mystery to me.  I do not recall which one he used regularly.

If all I had were the Master-Craft, I am sure I would be happy with them.

[LittleWatchShop]

2 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Here is an old thread on winders.

Looks like I created a recursive loop here...hope it does not blow up, or send a million pages to the printer!

[LittleWatchShop]

I have one of these...never tried it.

[richiesgr]

I'm surprised that before 80 years a lot of company have produced tools like these well engineered not expensive.

Today almost nothing sad  

[KarlvonKoln]

14 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

I have one of these...never tried it.

I have one also, and it works best for wrist watches, but it does work well once you get the hang of it.  

[Tzolkintime]

On 6/14/2018 at 12:20 PM, VWatchie said:

Indeed! A surprisingly educational and clarifying illustration! Thank you very much!

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/876/42080422644_b9dc757f4e_o.gif

So, we now know that when buying a Bergeon mainspring winder, the specified diameter is the outer diameter of the winder's drum. Brilliant! 

https://blog.esslinger.com/how-to-wind-a-mainspring-with-the-bergeon-mainspring-winders/

Thank you all for posting this information. Above find a link to some more info on this.  I know it's been a while for this board. I hope it's okay that I post something I came across, relating to this topic. It gives a pretty clear illustration, which I also like for reference as a la old school manual as opposed to video which can be hard to follow if not well done and not always clear. Many I'm sure know of this company but for those who don't, Esslinger, has a lot of useful written and video tutorials such as this on their website to go along with the products the offer, I just stumbled on them, and haven't read anyone mention in a forum so I thought I would in case it's helpful in any small way. Disclaimer -  I have  no relationship with Esslinger, I'm just a customer but FYI  I've also found them to be super nice, responsive to customers for orders or just info about stuff. Best. 

[clockboy]

In this months BHI (May 2021) mag there is an excellent article covering watch mainspring winders. The winders reviewed/ tested were Bergeron, Rolex, Chinese, Marshall,Kendrick & Davis (‘K&D’). The conclusions made replicate what I have said many times. One set does not cover all requirements with regard to barrel and arbour sizes. 

The Bergeron winders are supplied in either caliber specific (ETA) or by barrel size. The problem with this to cover all options 31 barrel bodies and cranks(arbors) have to be purchased. Not only is this above most horologist budgets the arbours are often too fat or too thin.  

The Chinese winders come in two sets. Red & Grey. The reviewer comes to much the same conclusion as our Marks opinion that the hooks on the arbours are made of Brass so wear could well be an issue. However the Grey version has a slightly better build as the arbours are Brass but are Nickel/ Chrome plated. He therefore lent a Grey set to a pro horologist for a month to see how it performed.Wear was evident with the hooks but not significant so these might still be good for the  keen amateur. 

His most favoured winder is the Rolex manufactured winder supplied to  accredited Rolex horologists. The reason given is superb build quality and the barrel covers are loose so when the arbour is removed from the wound spring the cover can still be held in place to stop the spring flying away. However cost is a big problem. I found one on the net with a price tag of $2900. However Cousins supply a clone of the winder, but in only 3 sizes with a cost £300 for the 3 or £109 each. 

I have attached a chart which shows the barrel and arbour sizes which is real handy to avoid duplicates or to find appropriate arbour to fit the spring being wound. 

This is just a snapshot of the article and I would have liked to have given more detail but I might well be in breach copyright issues with the BHI.

 

 

[oldhippy]

Interesting article for those who are confused about watch mainspring winders and which to buy.  Thanks clockboy.   

[Xilikon]

Interesting review, especially on the chinese mainspring winders. For a hobbyist watchmaker which do maybe one per month or less, it might be a worthwhile option as long as care is taken for the arbor hook.

the chart is also very nice to buy just the necessary based on what movements you work the most often and not all 31 (if you don't want the chinese version).

[LiamB]

I have used both the K&D and Watchcraft styles. In my opinion they both are unnecessarily finicky. In addition to this it isn’t unusual to find that these kits have hooks that are almost unusable. They are almost useless for automatic and modern mainsprings. They have caused me a lot of frustration. 
 

If I could give any advice I’d say buy a complete and new Bergeon set if you can afford it. They are beautiful to work with and make the process seamless. Wish I bought mine much earlier.  
 

Cheers 

[LittleWatchShop]

22 minutes ago, LiamB said:

have hooks that are almost unusable

If you are referring to used Ebay purchases...I would generally agree.  However, I have found it relatively easy to refit the winding arbor with a new pin.  I drill out the old pin and turn a new one on the lathe and then insert it.  Without a lathe, this might be a challenge.

[Zero]

On 4/28/2021 at 4:00 AM, LittleWatchShop said:

I have one of these...never tried it.

An ingenious tool from a vanished past. It is amazing how the folk of those days used to think and build tools. I bet with enough practice you could use this for any spring size.

If someone like me made a mistake while winding it, would it hurt? Likely to happen multiple dozens of times. Someone like me as in a person of very poor skill.

[AndreiMartin]

Hello all,

Slowly I'm investing in my watch toolkit and want to ask you all what would be the most common sizes for mainspring winders that you would recommend. Alongside my ordinary mens vintage watches I work on my wife's' small collection as well.

Could you list the top 3 (or any) mainspring winders size for start-up?

 

Thank you,

 

Andrei M.