A.scild 1906 train

[gary17]

hey guys.

I cannot work out how this train works.

See pic 3  Wheel numbered 1 is the seconds hand wheel it is turned by the mainspring barrel.

Then wheel 1 turns wheel 3 

Wheel 3 looks like it is meant to turn wheel 2 but it isnt.

Wheel 2 i have been told has the of center canon pinion on iy that goes through a hole to the rear of the plate.

And wheel 1 is turning the escape wheel.

When i turn wheel 1 buy hand it turns wheel 3 and the escape wheel,

Wheel 2 does not move.

But if i then turn the mainspring barrel number 2 wheel make a attempt to start.

So to me the mainspring seems to power wheel 1 and 2 seperately and wheel 1 turns wheel 3 and the escape wheel.

This does not seem correct to me and its driving me insane.

any advice or walkthroughs would be gratefully appreciated.

cheers

gary

 

[Graziano]

Hi there ,The center wheel drives the pinion of the third wheel, and the third wheel drives the pinion of the fourth wheel. Rearrange the wheels until you get this happening. Then put the bridge on and have a look .It can be a bit of a false reading without the bridge as the wheels jump around and lean into other wheels  where they shouldn't  if you try to test them without them in their pivots 

hope this helps

 

[JohnR725]

notice at the link below something that going to quote here "indirectly driven minute allows a big balance and low profile" this means you do not have your normal center wheel that's driven by the mainspring barrel.

This means your numbers don't quite work out right. The fourth wheel drives the escape wheel which is basically the fourth wheel is number one in the drawing escape wheel is number four

number two is being driven by the mainspring barrel and that would normally be the center wheel but that is somewhere else we need the other side of the movement to see that. Then if I'm interpreting everything correctly number three is the third wheel.

It's a problem with indirect things. The wheels actually look right as they are now they just numbered wrong see if you put the bridge on top do they turn? If they don't turn then you get to rearrange the wheels but they look right. Then the picture the dial side of course so we can see how that's arranged.

 

 

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&AS_1906

[gary17]

Hey

guys

 

Just broke camera lead so be back on tommorrow,

In the mean times thanks.

cheers

gary

[Rowbear23]

hi @gary17 I think I have a very similar question about a movement in the same family, an AS2066. I'll post some pictures here of the wheels. To me, if you're configuration is the same as mine, it looks like the barrel powers the 2nd wheel (also called the great wheel by AS) that is the one that wedges down against the teeth on the barrel. I've asked the group for confirmation of this but no one has responded yet so I can't promise I'm right on that. It's been referred to as movement with an offset cannon pinion. Anyway, the second wheel then powers the third, which has teeth on top to power the fourth wheel (center wheel). I'm not sure which of these is powering the escape wheel. Check to make sure you have the crown pushed in. It may be that if your crown is pulled out to setting position that the second wheel will not move as designed. 

My problem is that when I have all the wheels in and push the barrel I see the staff of the 2nd wheel spin in its bushing but the train of wheels does not move. Conversely, I can push on the center wheel or the 2nd wheel and the train of wheels spins freely. I'm just having trouble with engagement between the barrel and train. I've attached pics of the escape wheel, center wheel, 3rd wheel, 2nd wheel and then the dial side with the 2nd wheel in place.

Edited May 3, 2021 by Rowbear23

[gary17]

Hey

I now have power through the second wheel through the plate that is turning the canon pinion. But alas no movement from the train. I can move the train by hand and they all turn. but i am damned if i can work out were the power come to them from. I know it has to be the mainspring barrel???

cheers

gary

Edited May 3, 2021 by gary17

[Rowbear23]

you tried moving the crown/stem to make sure it isn't in the setting position? Also, stare at the pinion on your 2nd wheel under a loupe while you push on the barrel, can you tell if that pinion is rotating but the wheel is not? That's what I'm getting in my 2066.

[gary17]

hey

Yer same thing.

gary

[Rowbear23]

Hey gary, if it's the same problem I was having, you see the pinion move in the bushing but the wheel doesn't spin, then here is how I solved that problem tonight. Maybe you figured this out already, but I took the 2nd wheel/great wheel out, put it in my staking tool and did a couple light taps to get the wheel tightened on the staff. That seemed to do the trick. I did a dry fit, pushed the barrel and all wheels in the train spun like they are supposed to. The barrel is definitely powering the 2nd wheel and then the second wheel carries that power to the 3rd, etc. 

[Rowbear23]

Now, how do I get credit for solving this problem? 

[Nucejoe]

8 minutes ago, Rowbear23 said:

Now, how do I get credit for solving this problem? 

Get yourself a six pack of beer.

[gary17]

Hey rowbear.

Thanks. I now have a fully functioning as 1906 movement. I put my wheel in small vice and used trusty hammer to achieve what you did with staking tool.

Much appreciated.

cheers

gary

[JohnR725]

any idea why that part comes loose? Poor manufacturing perhaps?

[Rowbear23]

I'm guessing part of it has to do with the fact that it is wedged in there a bit beside the mainspring barrel. If someone removes it before removing the barrel then they may be putting pressure on that wheel if they grip it with their tweezers and pull up since the barrel partially obstructs removal.