Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Here is a cool piece of history that I picked up. It's a ww2 military Elgin nos with the original crystal, check out the radium burn. The Watch stopped at 2.30. It works well. I will service it soon, it has a 594 movement. The original box and bag is displayed. 

Cheers Graziano 

IMG_20210423_183756.jpg

IMG_20210423_183729.jpg

IMG_20210423_183718.jpg

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Michael1962 said:

Where do you find these things Graziano?

Hello Micheal1962, I picked this up from a gentleman who sells antique and vintage items out of Tasmania on ebay. I have a few of these ww2 Elgin pocket watches and this one is very interesting as it has the original box and crystal with the radium burn. That shows that it has sat somewhere for years and years in the box. Not very often you come across radium burn. Have a great day Micheal 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/23/2021 at 3:25 PM, Graziano said:

Not very often you come across radium burn.

my understanding is the military radium products are very very bad compared to the civilian. Usually the watchmaking point of view you'll see radium burn on the dial I've never seen it on a crystal. The other place where I see it is the old hand assortments. Hands were mounted on a piece of paper and the radium hands if you move the hand you can see where burn the paper. This even came up the other day somebody asked about it I showed him the hands the radium hands you could see the paper was burned.

unfortunately for watch repair, you will see it as I said on dials occasionally the hand assortments if you're still on the paper occasionally. The problem watch repair is things like the hand assortments there's a brand-new hand assortments from whatever it doesn't have a date on it most people wouldn't know the radium unless you knew what to look for. Unless you have a Geiger counter you don't know that that nice assortment a hands that you bought some of them are radium. So unfortunately the radium stuff is still around unless you have a Geiger counter unless it burns the paper a dial or crystal he can't look at him and tell entirely. Then you only see the burn if it stays in one place long enough to burn something.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

my understanding is the military radium products are very very bad compared to the civilian. Usually the watchmaking point of view you'll see radium burn on the dial I've never seen it on a crystal. The other place where I see it is the old hand assortments. Hands were mounted on a piece of paper and the radium hands if you move the hand you can see where burn the paper. This even came up the other day somebody asked about it I showed him the hands the radium hands you could see the paper was burned.

unfortunately for watch repair, you will see it as I said on dials occasionally the hand assortments if you're still on the paper occasionally. The problem watch repair is things like the hand assortments there's a brand-new hand assortments from whatever it doesn't have a date on it most people wouldn't know the radium unless you knew what to look for. Unless you have a Geiger counter you don't know that that nice assortment a hands that you bought some of them are radium. So unfortunately the radium stuff is still around unless you have a Geiger counter unless it burns the paper a dial or crystal he can't look at him and tell entirely. Then you only see the burn if it stays in one place long enough to burn something.

Hi there John, a big variable here is that the age of radium burns isn't necessarily a function of the age of the watch, but rather of how long the watch has been stopped. And the materials that burn. The dial has damage as well as in the enamel shine of the black dial is gone from most of the dial. I quickly put the front cover back on because there was significant amounts of lume dust around. I will remove this when I service it. The Watch ran well when wound and kept spot on time for the day then I just let it wind down, I to have not seen crystal radium burn, but I am guessing that this watch looking at the case which is like new could have sat in the dark in its box for up to 60 years maybe. I will keep that crystal with the Watch as I think it is amazing for a collector. 

Cheers Graziano 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/27/2021 at 11:42 AM, HectorLooi said:

So... how are you going to display this lovely piece of history?

A lead lined box with a thick piece of leaded glass?

Hi Hectorlooi, I haven't thought about that. Do you have any suggestions. And I should also display the crystal too don't you think? 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have no idea. For radiation safety, a box lined with lead foil would be advisable. But I'm not sure how thick the lead foil should be. In my xray room, the walls are lined with 1mm lead. 

Perhaps a medical equipment supplier dealing with xray equipment could advise you.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/28/2021 at 2:03 AM, HectorLooi said:

For radiation safety, a box lined with lead foil would be advisable. But I'm not sure how thick the lead foil should be.

the problem with radiation is typically you don't see it. There are examples of people seeing the effect of radiation usually the outcome on the people were very bad.

really the best way to figure this out would be to find somebody with a Geiger counter preferably a sensitive one. Find out how much lead you need to isolate yourself from the radium. Unless of course you just isolate the item from you in the house or wherever you are. Then of course there is the other problem if you put it in your landline box you going to keep opening it up to look at it you might have to get some  lead glass and that's probably going be considerably thicker than the lead itself. They might just be better to have a picture of it someplace in and put the item somewhere else away from people.

then I have some pictures for you since you like pictures. The radium burn on the card that the hands are on isn't really that spectacular. Most people probably wouldn't even notice I just happen to know what it is. We also don't know how long they've been there we can guestimate when they last made hands with radium.

that I knew we had something lurking in the shop I found it. As we can see a nice watch I should've set the hands C Elledge burning was on the dial I didn't think about that did very clearly see the crystals when burned.

radium burn crystal dial.JPG

radium burn hand one.JPG

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/29/2021 at 7:37 PM, JohnR725 said:

I knew we had something lurking in the shop I found it. As we can see a nice watch I should've set the hands C Elledge burning was on the dial I didn't think about that did very clearly see the crystals when burned.

Hi there John, probably a good idea for collectors and repair people of vintage watches to have a look through their collections or parts containers and remove radiation and place in a  contained storage  box before other damage is done to the young over time ,or your good watches that have been sitting next to it for years. 

image.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

These have been in the watch bench for umpteen years.

Hi there LittleWatchShop they have got to sit there for 100 umpteen years

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Graziano said:

Hi there LittleWatchShop they have got to sit there for 100 umpteen years

100 years is a little on the long side. If I remember when I'm at work again I'll look at the watch we could probably come up with a date of when the watch was made that would give us a clue.

5 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

I don't see any indication of radium burn on the inside of the cover/lid.

we run into problems with the subject. For instance how strong is the radium it has a half-life of thousands the years so that's not the issue of the half-life but how strongly did they mix it up? If you looked at the hand I had that was on the paper it's barely burned at all. Versus burning the crystal in the examples but as a guess that radium is probably a much higher concentration. Radium hands in a glass vial there's not a lot to burn other than the paper around it but I'm guessing they're too far away.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Hi all ,a new study from the good folks at the University of Northampton has shown that we all forgot one essential fact: radium decays to radioactive radon GAS, which is readily inhaled and will in sufficient doses significantly increase the risk of lung cancer. Radon is the second leading cause of lung cancer in the USA after cigarette smoking; the EPA estimates that radon is responsible for about 21,000 cancer deaths annually.  but it seems that logical steps to take might include considering ventilation issues, and investing in a radon detector for the room in which you keep your collection (radon monitors are inexpensive and recommended for most homeowners anyway).

Edited by Graziano
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I had a little time just before I was leaving to look at the watch. I was going to see what the date was there's no date code on the back and the movement conveniently did not want to come out and I didn't really want to be handling it anyway.

what I found interesting was that the burning was only on the crystal? Usually in the past if I've seen a radium burn it would be on the dial itself. With a hands and stayed stationary for a long time. But in some ways another example of without the crystal you can't look at the watch itself and see if that's radium.

rb5.JPG

rb4.JPG

Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

Usually in the past if I've seen a radium burn it would be on the dial itself

Did you know that at the time radium was the most valuable substance on Earth, selling for $120,000 for a single gram—$2.2 million at today's value ,just a bit of trivia.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



  • Recently Browsing

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Nucejoe has made some good points about the calendar mechanism. If the watch physically stops at least the hands stop and the secondhand keeps going that means the watch train is running it means that it's a disconnect between the gear train and our minute hand in calendar mechanism. The Canon opinion which I'm going but I guess is the type that snaps into a drive wheel. The drive wheel is driven by the gear train the Canon pinion goes on the post there is no friction there. If the friction between the drive wheel in the Canon pinion disintegrates which he can then with the least amount of friction like a calendar mechanism it just quit striving. The hands come to a stop the watch keeps running the secondhand keeps moving because it's independence of all of this. It should have been obvious when the watch was going to gather and you check the setting mechanism before you put the calendar on you would have noticed zero friction as a guess. Even now when you go into hands setting you'll feel like there's no friction at all. Then the reason why the calendar mechanism works when you manually rotate the hands is because the setting wheel is driving the Canon pinion directly which is driving the calendar mechanism and that our wheel and all of that so all of that will run from that we just will not run from the gear train running the drive wheel that's connected to the Canon pinion. But that's just my wild guess and then we throw in Nucejoe's possible calendar mechanism increased friction than we need to really isolate all of this or we can continue to guess.  
    • I am not sure if I correctly understand you here. Only the seconds hand keeps running or minute and hour hands do move too, in case minute and hour hands move and show time right, then the fault is in date change train including date jumper mech, but if it doesn't show time correctly ( appear to loose time) then its loose canon pinion. You can tighten a loose canon pinion, use grease to lube it, not oil.
    • Thank you for your introduction and welcome to this friendly forum.
    • always confusing when it's two separate watches but I'm going to assume they're basically identical. What was their condition before you service them in other words did have a problem before and the problem came after you've serviced or was the problems there before? Then timing machine results you do have a timing machine don't you? In other words what's the running condition of the watch like of the watches barely running that would be an issue for a calendar change   then you fix the problem? so I'm guessing we only have to worry about the 2778 then? Yes this is what happens when you have multiple watches with too much going on it becomes confusing. then it would be helpful to have a picture of the dial side components because we didn't memorize every single calendar change mechanism. one of the places to look is the Canon pinion assembly in other words to visit have enough force to drive the calendar mechanism? I'm having to guess because I'm not finding a good tech sheet that shows the parts. If it's a kinda Canon pinion I think which is the Canon pinion that slips into her presses into with friction with the wheel if it no longer has and the friction then a cannot drive the calendar but if you manually set the watch that drives the Canon pinion directly and everything should function. then if you two of the parts list it would be listed as canon pinion with drive wheel. .But it would be helpful in the picture just to make sure http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&ETA_2778  
    • I think what the problem here is you're asking the wrong question. The question is what part number do I need so that I can end up with the correct balance? Or the correct balance staff for that matter? If you look at the second link it lists the parts for your watch. This is always where things get interesting? you'll notice for balance staff they list seven different ones. For balance complete they do show three but if you look at the part numbers there's only two. then I attached some images from bestfit online and of course additional problems perhaps. Notice you have lots of choices and probably only one that's right. then the physical bestfit book becomes interesting because is an indication that there are variations which is of course why there so many listed in the images. but fortunately it looks like you want the basic simple one which should be 100/66.  unfortunately for the third link it's out of stock. then providing this is the right staff number I snipped out a couple of more images of the bestfit book which is what the dimensions mean and the dimensions. One of the irritating things of the physical book is on the dimension chart if you're trying to find a particular staff you just have to be lucky to go through the list and find it it be really nice if they list of the sizes by the numeric staff also. http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&AS_1287 http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=AS_1287 http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=U\ZD]J http://www.julesborel.com/s.nl/it.A/id.151223/.f  
×
×
  • Create New...