Reasonable cost for Valjoux 88 Repair/Rebuild

[nlapietr]

Good day.  If this question isn't allowed for some reason please forgive me.  I was recently gifted a LePhare Calendar Moonphase.  I beleive my grandfather purchased it in the 1950s.  It has a Valjoux 88 movement.  It is not working at the moment and I have been looking for a qualified watch repair service.   Two folks I contacted declined to work on it due to age, complexity, and scarcity of parts.  The third quoted ~$2,500.00. with general description of take down, clean, replace broken parts and optional case polish (if needed).  This seemed very high to me, also very generic (if needed?  did they look at the case?) so I was wondering if anyone has any thoughts on that.  In addition, I would love suggestions on where you folks would feel comfortable having a watch of this caliber worked on.  Thanks in advance for any insight.

[nickelsilver]

That's a pretty crazy price. Here in Switzerland an independent shop would probably be between 6-700, provided it doesn't need parts. They rarely need parts other than a mainspring, though sometimes you find a broken pin or wheel in the calendar which might jump the price a hundred or so.  They do take some time to do, and I would actually be suspicious of too low of a price.

[JohnR725]

2 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

That's a pretty crazy price. Here in Switzerland an independent shop would probably be between 6-700, provided it doesn't need parts.

Out of curiosity what would be the cost to service a Rolex watch in Switzerland?

Pricing of watch repair is always interesting. A lot of it depends upon where you're located I suspect downtown New York City would probably be cheaper than the middle of the US for instance. Or a location in a mall that's paying huge rents versus a small shop.

So unfortunately a variety of factors come into why things cost the way they do. Although at that price it seems like you might build by a new watch possibly even a new restored watch except I don't know what these things are going for?

[nlapietr]

57 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

So unfortunately a variety of factors come into why things cost the way they do. Although at that price it seems like you might build by a new watch possibly even a new restored watch except I don't know what these things are going for?

I was looking the other day an a Le Phare Calandar Moonphase went at auction for about $4,700.00 (USD) in 2015.  Just an indicator.  I am sure that one was in much better shape.

[nickelsilver]

To John, regular rolex rolex service from an independent would be between 5-700 for something post- bubbleback. Sure some will be more, few less.

 

As for the selling price of a similar chrono - doesn't matter what the watch is worth, a proper service is basically the watchmaker's time plus expendables (cleaning solutions, oil etc.) plus a little towards years of accumulating the tools to open and close the watch, test its waterproofness, and a dozen other things (until 5 or 6 years ago to see a digital timing display had an entry fee of several thousand bucks). And parts. I don't know any rich watch repairers; I do know some plumbers with their house paid off and a killer boat.

[clockboy]

16 hours ago, nlapietr said:

Good day.  If this question isn't allowed for some reason please forgive me.  I was recently gifted a LePhare Calendar Moonphase.  I beleive my grandfather purchased it in the 1950s.  It has a Valjoux 88 movement.  It is not working at the moment and I have been looking for a qualified watch repair service.   Two folks I contacted declined to work on it due to age, complexity, and scarcity of parts.  The third quoted ~$2,500.00. with general description of take down, clean, replace broken parts and optional case polish (if needed).  This seemed very high to me, also very generic (if needed?  did they look at the case?) so I was wondering if anyone has any thoughts on that.  In addition, I would love suggestions on where you folks would feel comfortable having a watch of this caliber worked on.  Thanks in advance for any insight.

That price seems very high. However parts is a real issue in that a repairer could strip the movement to clean and service but during the process a part is found that needs replacing and is not available.The repairer then has a dilemma, either to return the watch in bits or to re assemble the watch and return it not working ie a lot of time for no or little payment and a dissatisfied customer. 

[oldhippy]

In my day's 1970's & 80's I would charge about £50 and that would be for a Rolex as well. No wonder I'm poor as a church mouse. 

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, oldhippy said:

In my day's 1970's & 80's I would charge about £50 and that would be for a Rolex as well. No wonder I'm poor as a church mouse. 

There's several problems with what I quoted above. It's a common problem in watch repair that watchmakers are scared the charge enough money. So very often we grossly under charge what were supposed to.

Next problem is the problem with the example above is were talking 1970 to 1980 in today's money what does that equate to?

12 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

To John, regular rolex rolex service from an independent would be between 5-700 for something post- bubbleback. Sure some will be more, few less.

The reason I asked the price of a Rolex repair was I was trying to establish a common item that I knew with the price in this country is versus elsewhere? So the going rate for a Rolex repair in the US starts at $600. Unofficially because Rolex doesn't believe in anyone else ever touching their watch that's basically considered their price in the US.

Here's an interesting website found at the link below?

Now let's do something confusing and compromise? Let's take the above and make the date 1975. The cost for one Rolex is 50 pounds British sterling. Then let's go to the website below and I get stuck doing math because it doesn't want to do 50 pounds it's doing 100 pounds. That means really get to watch is fixed and later I'll do the math and convert it back to one watch. So converting 1975 money into 2021 money means the price would now be 813 pounds.

Then to do our comparison of $600 US versus the Swiss cost which were not compromise between 500 and $700 In British pounds comes out to be roughly 430 pounds

So simplistic all of this is you have to really careful to compare things properly. 50 pounds back then is now roughly 400 pounds today. The US versus Swiss price in pounds is 430 so were a little more greedy then somebody was back in the mid-70s.

Oh by the way there's a minor problem with the calculation above? The last time I did this a friend gave a talk about his grandfather used to repair watches I don't remember the year the money it was at a nawcc chapter meeting and these people are notoriously cheap on watch repair. They like to tell you continuously how the watchmakers are greedy bastards maybe not in those words. So he explained what grandfather charged to clean a watch but back then that was a yearly price. Today it's four years maybe minimum service between times?

So the problem became taking the price that he had converting it to modern prices but the website is looking at showed something interesting? The inflation calculator should take into account in animate object? Unskilled labor versus skilled labor? All three do not convert equally. The only way to get the math the work at the time was watch repair would be unskilled labor otherwise the numbers would come boldly out a line.

 

1 hour ago, clockboy said:

That price seems very high.

Now back to the original question yes it does seem to be rather high in price? But as pointed out he would have to get parts you probably want to guarantee it.

Then what other thing is affects pricing? Location a downtown jewelry store retail in London, New York Rome I suspect those will probably not beer best locations to get inexpensive watch repaired? Or you could take a watch to a jewelry store and they don't have a watchmaker they send it out. Instantaneously the price doubles sometimes triples. If you want your best pricing see if you can find the watchmaker.

If you want really amusing prices they are forbidden to  discuss prices on the nawcc discussion group but the last time I was there they thought a pocket watch should probably go for anywhere between 50 and $100 anything more you getting ripped off. But of course those are people with hundreds of pocket watches and that I mentioned watchmakers are greedy?

But still price the chronograph seems a bit high I would seek other people and see what can a price you can get.

 

https://www.inflationtool.com/british-pound/1975-to-present-value

 

 

[clockboy]

I have a vintage Rolex on my bench with a stem that will not stay screwed down. The guy asked Rolex for quote and it was £600 for a service and the cost of the stem repair and any other replacement parts to added. 

[JohnR725]

3 hours ago, clockboy said:

vintage Rolex

My understanding in this country if you have the word of vintage and Rolex you better have a heck of a lot of money. Anything of vintage the people in the field can't get parts there supposed to go back to Rolex. I think they charge a fee just to evaluate the watch. Then when they do the repair everything it's not original gets replaced and I think they tossed the parts you don't get them back because Rolex believes their watch should be original. At least original by their definition.

[oldhippy]

Depends how you define Vintage. Anything antique should be over 100 years old. Descriptions on many second hand goods are called antique even if they are only about 20 years old. Vintage should be at least 20 years. I have known Rolex to refuse to repair one of their own that has been less then 20 years old they said because of its age they couldn't guarantee the thing. The customer was angry with them, so I said I can do it for a price and I'll guarantee my work. I never had any trouble. With rolex you get bloody **BLEEP** poor after sales service if you ask me.

[Endeavor]

 

 

 

Above a FED chart (till 2012) showing the increase of the base-money. You can nicely see that it starts in the 1970's when people were offered credit (and in 1971 Nixon took the dollar off the gold-standard, clearing the way for unlimited printing) and the buying / borrowing frenzy started. On top comes all the additional money printing after the financial crisis in 2007-2009. The FED discontinued showing this chart, most likely because all this money printing (out of thin air) has literally gone off-the-charts.

Below a chart of fiat-money compared to gold, showing the decline of fiat-money purchase power;

 

Again, the purchase power of fiat fell off the cliff after the 70's (due to fiat-money inflation)

It's not exactly the goods & services which are getting more expensive, it's mainly because of the loss of purchase power of the fiat-money that you are holding in your wallet / bank-account. Now faster than ever before. Covid-19 has accelerated the fiat-money printing even further to record heights all over the world. It's won't be long before we see major inflation (= further drop in fiat-money purchase power) and a Rolex service will become even far more "expensive", perhaps "off-the-charts" too ? Perhaps over a while the current Rolex servicing cost may look as cheap as £50 in the '70's ?

 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2021 by Endeavor

[Endeavor]

Just for the fun of it I looked up the price I paid for my first Rolex in 1982. It was a ref.16014 Datejust Oyster with another dial (& white-gold bezel) than depicted in the brochure. Even though the watch was in 1992 traded in for my current Submariner, I always kept the 1981 brochure and the 1981 price-list. I bought the watch before the new December 1982 price-list was due ....... and see the "Warning" printed in red.

 

In the price-list the ref.16014 was listed as £624 (GBP), but I managed to buy it for £551 ..... (marked with a pen behind the official list-price)

A Sea-dweller listed for £658 !!!

Those were the times !!

Not really, I do remember that £551 was a lot of money ......

Here the 1982 price-list with the (inflation) "warning";

Edited April 25, 2021 by Endeavor

[dadistic]

Yikes!

Just found this thread. Checked the exchange rate in 1982, that was slightly less than $1000.00 at the time. 

A couple of inflation calculators put that at ~ $2800.00 in 2021 dollars. Fantastic price!

I think Rolex prices have gone up at something more than the rate of inflation

 

p.s. If I could buy a new one at that price I might just do it.

Edited May 28, 2021 by dadistic
added p.s.

[Endeavor]

@dadistic I bought in 1992 my bi-color Submariner for $6000.

It's not that the value has increased, it's the dollar loosing its purchase power. Governments printing unlimited amounts of unbacked currency => inflation. Same as putting water in the wine .....

We all know that the official rate of inflation is done by the government Bureau of Statistics, or in short: BS.

[nlapietr]

Bringing the original discussion to a close, I had the watch serviced at RGM Watch Co. located in Mount Joy, PA.  They quoted (and held to) a price of $900.00.  They did service the watch and actually had to make/replace at least one part.  It took a little longer than planned but I was very happy with the result.  I have been wearing the watch almost daily since and it keeps great time.

 

Thanks all.

[Plato]

RGM make their own watches too so they must be pretty good, they're on YouTube. 

 

[nickelsilver]

I've met Roland (WOSTEP 50th anniversary) seemed like a square dealer, nice knowledgeable guy who's paid his dues, good conversation, and delighted to hear they did it at that price including a part they had to make! They were fair and you're happy, absolute best situation (and I'm sure RGM did a better job than the 2500 quote folks).

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, nickelsilver said:

I've met Roland (WOSTEP 50th anniversary)

 for those of us who didn't make it to the anniversary I found pictures.

 

https://www.wostep.ch/en/node/602

https://www.rgmwatches.com/rgmblog/2016/9/13/wosteps-50th-anniversary