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Magnetism detection with a Compass ...... was I wrong ??


Endeavor

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1 hour ago, VWatchie said:
1 hour ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Anybody have inside pictures of the Elma?

I consider the public API of the ELMA to be nothing short of absolute perfection and a source of inspiration. I just don't want to be, nor have an interest in, messing with it's private interface 

I didn't realize you could do a double quote?

The absolute perfection of a machine can go bad and no longer function. This meant it came home my demagnetizer from home went to work. I ordered a replacement capacitor off of eBay it's still sitting in the box and the whole thing just slid off into the horizon too many other projects not getting done. But there's been a recent renewed interest and I will get a schematic eventually. Because I'm not 100% sure where the problem is and I really need a schematic.

So here's a picture of the machine.

Then encompasses and watch repair apparently are supposed to be tiny. So here's the tiny compasses that I have which strangely enough I've never actually used or if I did use him I just don't remember using them so I keep them safe the little plastic container in the bench.

Then I forgot the photograph the other side of the circuit board that's where you find the switch and the LED. But at least you can see the basics of it.

edm-3.JPG

edm-2.JPG

edm-1.JPG

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9 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

The absolute perfection of a machine can go bad and no longer function.

Well, my post wasn't meant to be taken too seriously but was an attempt to perhaps make someone laugh, or at least smile a bit, that is, if you're into OO programming. I guess humour isn't my strong suit. ?

Edited by VWatchie
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12 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

So here's a picture of the machine

It appears to me that there is no voltage multiplier in this one.  Just a FW bridge from the mains and a relay that closes the circuit through the transformer.  I am guessing that the switch activates a one-shot so that the big open-core inductor just gets one blast.  This is a very simple implementation.  Not so easy to copy because of the inductor design.  My guess is that is where their intellectual property lies.  Probably custom made by Ristra.

If you take a picture of the other side of the board, I will attempt to extract the circuit and post it. 

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10 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

I guess humour isn't my strong suit.

Don't worry about your humor my boss always gets confused with my and continuously points out the? Plus I can't get his sense of humor at all. We had to have a separate worker point out that we both have confusions with our weird sense of humor to your Sense of humor was fine it's probably just mind that isn't quite right.

From my bosses opinion he thinks my demagnetizer is better than the nifty Swiss one that he paid a heck of a lot of money for. But I thought the nifty demagnetizer at work that now is at home seem to be much nicer and stronger the one the one I have? It's why it's at home not so much because Ike hopefully can fix it because I want to steal the schematic and possibly make one.

Out of curiosity with your machine somewhere in time one of the representatives who I think made my machine claims that a good test was to put a quarter on the machine and push the button and the quarter would flip. I notice my machine the quarter today's quarters must be a lot heavier than the old quarters because it doesn't flip that well. So quarters about one and sure 25 mm in diameter if you of a suitable coin and put it on the machine would you tell me what it does?

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6 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

If you take a picture of the other side of the board, I will attempt to extract the circuit and post it. 

I really can't pass up free help let me see what I can do for additional pictures.

Somewhere lurking in the computer I think I have a PDF for the relay. Just don't the word is right now. At least we had an answer for what one of the diodes is we get the last number of seven. Such probably a 4007.

 

 

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dm-1.JPG

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It would be interesting to see the schematic ! Looking at the number of diodes (the 1N4007 is rated for 1Amp, 1000V) and the 630V auxiliary capacitors, one would think that there is some voltage multiplication happening (?). The main cap is rated to 450 - 500VAC .....

Since this is read world-wide, it would be very wise, for future reference and for DIY enthusiast, to mention the main-voltage the design is meant for !

We surely deviated from the threads topic, but since it is so interesting, still within magnetism and the remedies, I would suggest we let it run. It won't be the first- and the last-thread were we are ending up talking about cars ?

Here the schematic of the simple demagnetizer I build (240VAC mains). It is currently working well but still in it's "proto-type" state (awaiting the final parts);

 

1298742892_Demagschematice.png.affc60ca56b609fb52971dde3c47c8f1.png

Since my modified transformer is quite big it will get a no less than 45µF 450VAC capacitor ???

The switch I've ordered is a STDP 15Amp momentary push-button; press to charge, release to discharge via the coil. So when out of use or stored, the cap will always be discharged. Currently it works on a smaller 7µF 450VAC cap.

 

 

Edited by Endeavor
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12 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

So quarters about one and sure 25 mm in diameter if you of a suitable coin and put it on the machine would you tell me what it does?

I tried it with a Swedish coin and nothing happens, except being demagnetised I would, of course, assume.

Metal content: Copper plated steel, ie a steel core with a thin outer layer of copper
Weight: 3.60 grams
Diameter: 19.50 millimeters
Thickness: 1.79 millimeters

However, when I demagnetise individual watch parts they sometimes take a small jump.

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Do you have any other Swedish coins that are not steel.

It's one of the amusing things of magnetic fields and non-ferrous metals where it's assumed that there would be no effect but yet there's all sorts of interesting effects of magnetic fields and things around them.

I'll have to try to remember tomorrow to put a quarter on the demagnetizer and see how well it slips the coin I did think that it wasn't his enthusiastic as it used to be. Then if we can figure out what's wrong with the elma that I have here we can see if he'll flip a quarter. Although was thinking I wonder if it would do better with a silver quarter? I never tried that. Then it's also an amusing way of does it really show anything at all? In other words just because a coin flips does that mean it effectively removes a magnetic field from an object?

 

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17 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Not so easy to copy because of the inductor design

My transformer is taken out of an old 240VAC / 12V (≈150W) battery dump charger.

233291208_EinhellBatt-charger.jpg.e2f4d6266a699a4090dc4bafe3b691d6.jpg

 

The secondary coil removed;

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and the top carefully flush above the primary-coil chopped off;

IMG_1172.thumb.JPG.cbf1b9a91729ab51e3a95b2345b0b77c.JPG

Of course it's not all as slick as an official factory made Ristra / Elma-coil and it has no Ristra-sticker across it, but it works the same ..... ?

Edited by Endeavor
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Hi Endeavor,

may I comment your circuit?

- I would expect R2 rather to be 220k (if B1 is a neon bulb).
- R1 is just cosmetic with 20 Ohms. Take 2k or more, so you will never overload D1 and still C1 will be full after 1/10 second.
- I would connect B1 to C1. So you get warned when S2 is still on by accident.

Frank

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Thank you for your comments ?

The schematic was the template for my 240VAC design. It was taken of the internet; https://www.instructables.com/Demagnetizer-From-a-Microwave-Transformer/ .

In fact the neon-bulb didn't work; it was either too slow to react or perhaps I blew it up? Therefor I indeed planned on to connect a neon light across the capacitor. Besides, since I get the STDP momentary push button, S2 will only be "active" when depressed. With the push-button in the rest position it will be connected ("S1") such that the capacitor sits parallel with the coil. This way the capacitor will be discharged and when connected to the mains, there won't be any current flowing.

Talking about the push-button I've ordered; it is to me a bit unclear whether it has a build-in neon-light. There seems to be some additional contacts but I've to see when it arrives ...... ; https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Arcade-Game-AC-250V-15A-24mm-Dia-Circular-Push-Button-Red-Micro-Switch/351810829315?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

If it has a neon light build in than it will be used as indication lamp.

As for the 20Ω 2Watt resistor; I was planning on to install a NTC 5D-15 thermistor right after the on/off switch. This should hopefully prevent any overloads. If a 2KΩ resistor is better, I need to get some with the correct Wattage as most I have in stock are 1/8 - 1/4 Watt.

Once I have my demagnetizer up & running, I was planning on to post pictures of the build together with the final schematic.

Today I received my 45µF capacitor and I have to admit, size-wise it's a "tad" overdone ! But I'm sure it will bring the message across ?

 

Edited by Endeavor
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Testing my new demagnetizer, I placed an, according to the Lepsi-App "megnetism-detected" iron watch-hand on it. Fired the demagnetizer and the watch hand flew about 10cm next to the demagnetizer. Tested the hand and it was still detected as "magnetized".

Placed the hand again, but this time held it down with some copper tweezers. "Zapped" it and this time the hand was by the Lepsi-App delared as being "healthy".

Edited by Endeavor
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8 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

Do you have any other Swedish coins that are not steel.

There are are also a couple of coins having an alloy consisting of copper, aluminum, zinc and tin. For the moment I have none of those in my possession, but if you think it's worthwhile I can give it another go once I have one some?

6 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

I have to cover containers with small screws because they take flight.

I only demagnetize small parts and screws separately if they stick to my tweezers (Dumont Dumoxel 95% Anti-magnetic), but when I do I always place them in a plastic bag first to "ensure no pieces are lost".

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1 hour ago, VWatchie said:

There are are also a couple of coins having an alloy consisting of copper, aluminum, zinc and tin. For the moment I have none of those in my possession, but if you think it's worthwhile I can give it another go once I have one some?

It's more for my amusement. I just remember seeing someone demonstrate how wonderful the machine was because it can flip a quarter. I vaguely recall the last time I tried and when I go to work today I will try it was having a tough time flipping a quarter. The consequences of electrolytic capacitor in use or sitting there forever then eventually go bad or lose their strength. So as soon as I find a quarter I'm also hoping to find a silver quarter because I'm curious and anything else that looks suitable I'll report back much much later today. Of course flipping a quarter has nothing to do with whether it can actually remove magnetism from an object.

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