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Felsa 1560 Bidynator


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Just finished servicing one of these as part of a task set by my Horology tutor.

Thought I wold give a quick walk through as it is an interesting and very good movement that can be had fairly cheaply.

 

The Bidynator was the first Bi-Directional auto movement (Felsa 690) introduced I believe in the 1940's. This is the later 1560 calibre.

 

Here is the rotor that is removed by moving the tiny spring loaded lever down and left to unlock it. This is indicated on the rotor by a small arrow.

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With the rotor removed the auto plate is revealed. You can also see it has Incabloc shock protection and the escape wheel has capped jewels.

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Auto plate removed revealing the bi-directional auto module. This movement has 2 clicks, the one on the auto module does not let the power down. The click to let down the power is located at the 2 o'clock position in this picture resting against the barrel  ;)

IMG_2280.jpg

 

With the plate removed the gear train is exposed, notice the twin gears on the third wheel. The lower wheel is slightly offset to the top wheel. These engage with the (indirect drive) centre seconds pinion to prevent stutter I guess?

 

I didn't photo inside the barrel when I took it apart but it has a conventional mainspring hooking, but there is a separate slipping bridle that runs around the inside rim of the barrel. The mainspring hooking, hooks on to this and this provides the slipping mainspring that is required for a automatic movement.

The slipping bridle is removed during cleaning and braking grease apple to the barrel wall before re-assembly.

NOTE: The mainspring winds in reverse to the more common mainsprings (ETA's etc) This caused a problem with my mainspring winder that can only wind in one direction (Bergeon..Hah!) So it was hand wound in which was quite straight forward.

 

When the gear train has been removed there is a final bridge holding the centre wheel in place.

 

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Flipping over the movement reveals a straight forward motion works and keyless setup. Again you see the capped jewel escapement and look at that shock setting, this is a well made, good quality movement ;)

 

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Lubricants used were, 
 
Auto module and rotor 9010
Gear train D5 & 9010, 9415 on the pallets
Mainspring wiped with D5, Barrel wall 8213 braking grease
Keyless and motion works D5 & Molykote DX
 
The movement is performing very well with a 48hr power reserve. I don't have a timegrapher at home so regulated it with a digital stopwatch as close as I could. It is still within a minute, 3 days later, being worn all day on the wrist...Impressive.
 
Here's the completed watch.
IMG_2393.jpg
 
 
 

 

 
 

 

 
 
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Mainspring reversed compared to eta is easy to solve with this trick.

 

wind the spring upside down in a holder one size smaller. After the spring is fully in that holder transer the spring to the correct size holder by putting the holders face to face and push the plunger. Now the spring is in the proper direction and you can push him in the barrel. Simple trick but works nearly always.

 

succes

 RonP

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Sudden thread resurrection! To complete the miracle, let's have a guess game, in the picture below there is a feature that has become obsolete since many decades, what it is?
 

Beginners only experts please abstain from answering :)

 

On 4/9/2015 at 11:23 PM, jaycey said:

IMG_2301.jpg

 

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Nice walkthrough Jaycee a movement I have not seen before. The barrel/ mainspring set up is interesting. If I have a  winding in the correct direction issue I just wind the spring in the wrong direction then I then push the spring into a suitable washer, turn over the washer & push the spring into the barrel (The same method used with a new spring)

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    • As I was typing this, @HectorLooi expressed the same idea. It's possible that when a wheel is pushed in the opposite direction it cants a little, or lifts up in its setting. I'd check end shake on everything first, since it's already assembled--I had a Seiko 6139 where one of the upper bridge jewels was pushed up a bit and caused it to behave unpredictably. Then I'd probably take all the wheels out and reinstall one at a time until I found the noise. Also look very closely at the bridge and flat parts of the wheels for wear marks. Look for shiny spots.
    • This sounds like one of the pivot holes has worn and become elliptical. Can you post some photos of the plates?
    • Even after thorough cleaning unfortunately the issue persists. I have made sure that all wheels are perfectly clean, no teeth are chipped, no gunk is left built up on them etc. yet the issue is not gone. When reassembling the movement I of course checked if the wheel train moves freely as that was the suspected cause of the issue before. And the intersting thing is - it does - but only in the "wrong" direction. Driving the wheeltrain by turning the mainspring barrel in the opposite direction as it would turn in normal operation, all wheels spin freely, and continue spinning for a few moments even after I stop providing power by hand. They behave the way I'm used to and have seen with other wheels before. However: When I apply torque in the opposite direction, the power delivery througout the train is not smooth or continuous. While it does turn, there are stages of increased resistance in the train. In addition to this, you can hear a slight "rubbing" sound whenever the trian passes by this point of increased resistance. The sound, to me, is more indicative of a surface rubbing on another surface, rather than the teeth of two wheels getting stuck within each other. Installing the click and putting a wind in the mainspring confirms this same issue, it does unwind and all wheels are powered, yet when the power reserve approaches depletion, it doesn't have enough power to push the wheeltrain past this point of friction. The slightest bump on any of the wheels will free the train, make it spin for however many rotations and then get stuck in the same way. You can do this several times before the power is actually completely depleted. This has really left me dumbfounded. I have inspected all of the wheels, pivots, teeth etc. on the entire wheel train and can't find any traces of dirt, any bent teeth or any warped or out of plane wheels. Besides: If one of the wheels was bent and rubbing up against some other part of the movement during a rotation, shouldn't it be doing this regardless of the direction of the rotation? This is supremely confusing to me and I can't figure out for the life of me why there is increased friction in only ONE direction and not the other. Installing the balance yielded the same result as before the disassembly: the watch runs great for about 50 seconds and then get's stuck when the wheel train get's bogged down. I mentioned earlier that there is a periodic scraping noise that can be heard when the gear train turns fast, this noise is not present when turning the train the opposiste direction. Does anyone have any ideas about which parts of the movement I can check for rubbing? I found no signs of wear or scraping on any of the bridges etc. so what would cause this periodic friction in one direction but not the other? I am very much a novice and have never dealt with such an issue before so I would love to hear what you people think about this. Thanks.
    • For me the second site has been hacked. 
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