Ball bearings for clock bushings

[HectorLooi]

I came across a video on YouTube where a worn bushing was replaced with a ball bearing. The repaired wheel was able to spin freely for a very long time. 

If you fast forward to around 6:00, he shows a worn 2nd wheel hole replaced with a ball bearing. (OH, please look past the use of a power drill to enlarge the hole.)

What are your opinions on the use of ball bearings?

[Michael1962]

Well I just watched it all and I would suggest that he has not achieved very much at all. If you watch after 7:45 minutes, maybe it is the refresh rate on my Mac, but I cannot see the bearing race actually turning when he is spinning the wheel. Also, as he has the bearing on the top plate of this wheel in his demonstration the wheel would be sitting on its lower pivot on the bottom plate as he shows the bearing slipping onto the top pivot at 7:07.

I am not an experienced clockmaker, but I don't think there is any advantage to doing this at all. If the pivot spins in the inner race, the pivot will wear away now as the race is hardened. When the pivot is in the brass plate, the plate wears away. That would no longer happen in this case. Also, if the bearing happened to 'walk' out of the movement plate for whatever reason, the damage that would happen then would quite likely ruin quite a few parts.

[oldhippy]

I see two things wrong with this. The first he has removed far to much brass in order to fit that ridiculous bush. You are supposed to remove as little as possible of the original. Second it is not in keeping with the clock, it sticks out like a sore thumb, again you repair as near to the original as possible. I watched a few of his videos and I'm not impressed at all. If I had my way 99% of videos I watch on Youtube about clock repairing I would remove. They give skilled repairers or restorers a bad name. 

Any new clock repairers on this forum. Do not follow what this idiot is showing you and avoid his videos. 

[HectorLooi]

Ok, noted. I like to explore new ways of doing old things. One material that has intrigued me for a long time is Aluminium Magnesium Boride (BAM). It's supposed to be one of the hardest and most slippery substance known to man.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_magnesium_boride

However, I have not seen any real world applications of this material. Can you imagine if we had bushings or bearings made of this ceramic alloy. If we could coat metal surfaces with it, we could have machines that would never wear out.

And there lies the crux of the matter. Which manufacturer would invest in a technology that could put them out of business.

[watchweasol]

Hi Hector if only.  The machines of today have built in obsolescence with a life of 5 to10 years max. And as you rightly say what manufacturer would embrace a technology that would give bearings and bushings a life time of use. Such technology would put manufacturers out of business. 

[oldhippy]

I’m a believer of using traditional ways when it comes to repairing. You certainly should do if you are restoring a clock.   

[HectorLooi]

While I'm for the use of new technologies and materials, I do draw the line when it comes to doing sacrilegious things.

Like whenever I see a vintage clock that had been gutted and fitted with a $2 quartz movement. And the smug seller advertises it as repaired, fixed and modernized. 

[watchweasol]

There is no other way, than repair as un obtrusivly and as near to the original as possible keeping the whole clock intact as is. I repair quartz clocks, and when ever possible repair the same unit or re fit a unit as close yo the original as possible.  We can all lob in a cheap chinese unit costing a £1 and make it work.  I have seen some nice clock cases that have been "converted" using cheap units, the clock is then ruined. Most clocks can be repaired but as ever its economics, down to cost.  How many good clocks have suffered with that in mind. Hundreds.

[Michael1962]

When I first watched this I did so without sound. (in our lounge and others were watching TV)

I just listened to it with sound. What a mess of a video. It chops and changes between topics (i.e. the preacher moment) and I have only just heard & noticed that he used a bushing inside the inner race of the bearing. What an absolute waste of time and effort as well as looking completely out of place.

I'm with @oldhippy. Not a very instructional video.

[HectorLooi]

I guess it's also because the clock was not designed for ball bearings and the bearings were not designed for clocks. If it were executed correctly, the clock could potentially be maintenance free. But I can already hear the clockmakers scream "Why would we want that?"

I like things that lasts forever and need practically no maintenance. It's probably a trait I acquired from having too many expat teachers from Scotland. 

[oldhippy]

Nothing lasts forever. Some things last longer than others. 

[nickelsilver]

The ball bearings are marketed by Butterworth clocks in the U.S., a distributor of German clock movements. As I understand it, the bearing mod came about as a result of the terrible plated pivots some of the German makers started using in the last quarter of the 20th century; many clockmakers feel that once the plating starts to peel off, the soft steel underneath is unsuitable as a pivot, so you either repivot or replace the whole wheel. With the bearings (installed as intended), the pivot is a firm fit in the inner race via a bushing, and voila. It seems initially they were just for the great wheels, now with cheap miniature bearings they are marketing them for more.

 

They also sell a "pivot polishing system" which looks like a time consuming way to make crappy pivots- just went to find a vid (there are a couple), and had to laugh out loud- our dear OldHippy seems to have commented hahahahahaha.

 

 

[oldhippy]

Words fail me.

 

[Tmuir]

1 hour ago, nickelsilver said:

They also sell a "pivot polishing system" which looks like a time consuming way to make crappy pivots- just went to find a vid (there are a couple), and had to laugh out loud- our dear OldHippy seems to have commented hahahahahaha.

Dear God!!!

[anilv]

haha... classic case of 'a solution in search of a problem' . The balls are not moving.. (7.55). If the bearing was working properly they would roll around. The bearing looks like it will be thicker than the plate.. this means it will not be really secure..

Interesting but ultimately pointless.

Anilv

[RogerH]

On the question of pivots I've notice you can now buy "quick pivots" which looks like they fit over the the top of the old part. not having a lathe to make new ones this does seem like a simple solution but what do people think? are they any good?

[HectorLooi]

You're a brave one. I didn't dare ask OH any more heretical questions lest he excommunicate me.

I think it should work but I think a lathe is still needed to cut off the old pinion and shape the arbor to the correct diameter to fit into the quick pivot.

[watchweasol]

Hi never used them, but as Hector says a lathe is used to shape the staff to fit the pivot

[oldhippy]

13 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

You're a brave one. I didn't dare ask OH any more heretical questions lest he excommunicate me.

 

[RogerH]

So, another treat to add to my shopping list! are there good and bad lathes? or is it just the more you pay the better it gets? any recommendations are greatly appreciated.

[oldhippy]

Are you after a watchmakers lathe or a clockmakers?

[RogerH]

Clocks.

[oldhippy]

Then I suggest the Unimat 3 this is what I have and it will handle anything right up to Longcase clocks including the barrels and center wheel. You can still buy accessories even though most are second hand. Some of the lathes I have seen on ebay even have the milling attachment (you can get that separately if you wish)   

[LittleWatchShop]

Read this thread...tough crowd!!

[LittleWatchShop]

As I have posted...when a teen, my dad paid me to do his clock work for the shop.  I will not reveal any of my repair stories at the risk of being tossed out on my arse!

Now in my golden years, I aspire to perfection--reading and absorbing all of this good knowledge--atoning for my past sins.