Military A-17 case--should it have a case tube?

[LittleWatchShop]

Here is an A-17 from the box-o-watches.  Did it originally have a tube for the crown?  Done some googling but have not yet found the answer.

[JohnR725]

It's really weird and unhelpful every single picture I can find conveniently has the crown in. I'm guessing of it had a case tube it would probably friction in? If it was a screw in the crown in your case might be threaded for that. Otherwise it seems like they would have something because usually military watches need to be water resistant.

[LittleWatchShop]

1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

every single picture I can find

Yeah...same sentiment here.  I have searched high and low.  Keeping watch for a beat up (cheap) donor to buy to unravel this mystery.

[spectre6000]

May or may not be helpful, but here's an A-15. It was a prototype based on the A-11 with two rotating inner bezels. Obviously the case is different, but the close association and extremely limited run (500 for testing) would suggest it should be substantially similar.

EDIT: I misspoke slightly. The A-15 is based on the A-11, not A-17. Both are evolutions from the A-11, so they're more like siblings than parent/child.

Edited March 28, 2021 by spectre6000

[rodabod]

I’d love one of those a15s!

[spectre6000]

Please excuse the digression:

It's an incredibly cool watch. It was designed as a replacement for a chronograph for flight navigators that is cheaper to produce and maintain. Between the hack and the dual bezels, you can very easily emulate the functionality at a small fraction the cost. For better or worse, the thing Americans have done best is bring complex and expensive things to the masses. Sometimes it's by dumbing things down (cheese, "laht burr", etc.), sometimes it's via clever simplification (cars, manufacturing writ large, etc.). This is a beautiful example of that latter.

They only made 500 of them for testing purposes (the design was not adopted, which makes it a really weird design to pull out of the file cabinet for reproduction, but glad they did it). At least some of them were likely returned after the tests were completed, but some made it into the wild. Very few are out there, and I've never seen even a photo of one in very good shape. Bulova did a reproduction of sorts in 2014 as part of their then-new CEO's effort to push Bulova back upmarket via the AccuSwiss line. Bulova made cases with ETA movements (2824-2 in this particular case). He got canned pretty quick, and Citizen resumed flushing the brand down the toilet. They re-reissued it recently with a Miyota 82S6. The original was the same diameter as the watch it was based on plus the width of the inner bezels, making it a very modern 36 or 38mm in diameter. The AccuSwiss repro was 39.5mm (2824-2 + bezels), and the current one is 42mm (I assume there's a spacer since the Miyota is only 0.5mm wider than the ETA). 

It's a clever and functional watch with an interesting history from a once storied brand that fills the pilot watch slot in your watch collection while also being notably different from all the other identical fliegers out there. The 2824-2 version is especially attractive as the intersection between quality, parts availability, and price. I may be a little biased though (there's one on my wrist now)...

[LittleWatchShop]

I am still puzzling over this.  Here are some magnified pictures.  Not great, but it is what I can do. 

Based on my high-resolution inspection of both the inside and out, there was never a case tube.  Does that mean that the original crown tube fit inside the case in the winding position.  Seems odd...dunno.  How could it keep out moisture and dust.

Maybe there was a tube that has been completely pushed out (not shaved off).  That might make sense.  Maybe I should add one?

I need to buy a trinocular stereo microscope so I can mount a camera!!

[JohnR725]

You might find the book found at the link below helpful. It's filled with military timepieces including wristwatch cases lots of pictures and drawings. I think I looked for your watch case in the book that I didn't see it doesn't mean it's not in there it just indexing of the book is really weird for looking things up. But it didn't look like not all of the cases had case tubes they had other arrangements.

https://www.amazon.com/Military-Timepieces-Marvin-Whitney/dp/0918845149

 

[LittleWatchShop]

OK, I decided to install a case tube and move on to find a crown. This tube came from the stuff my Dad left me.  It was a tad to big, so I turned it on the lathe.

I am learning...slowly...

[Tmuir]

On 4/13/2021 at 4:44 AM, JohnR725 said:

You might find the book found at the link below helpful. It's filled with military timepieces including wristwatch cases lots of pictures and drawings. I think I looked for your watch case in the book that I didn't see it doesn't mean it's not in there it just indexing of the book is really weird for looking things up. But it didn't look like not all of the cases had case tubes they had other arrangements.

https://www.amazon.com/Military-Timepieces-Marvin-Whitney/dp/0918845149

 

I have that book, it does not give a parts diagram or specification for A17, only the photo of 1 watch that it says is non-waterproof.

It's hard to say for sure but looking at the pictures it does not appear to have a crown tube, unlike the A-11 that definitely does.

If you are interested in military timepieces made in the USA this is definitely the best book in the subject though.