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Very confusing Timegrapher results


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No idea if they have copy protection it would be nice if they didn't. It be nice to the Chinese could clone it or would clone it or even make a clone of the idea of it. Because once you go to a PC-based timing machine all those nice enhancements become relatively easy to do versus a dedicated machine where where limited.

Even witschi understands that like the machine at work when I did the firmware update a new feature appeared which was their time plot capability that wasn't there before. Just because of software it adds a lot of flexibility the things.

The sad problem with witschi and a lot of Swiss companies are as their cost the machines go up the quantity of buyers go down. The Chinese have demonstrated if you make a timing machine for lesson $200 you can sell them all across the planets it be interesting to know how many of those they've sold. It's now really a must have if you're working on watches to have a Chinese timing machine unless of course you just won the lottery than you can a witschi machine warrior in a business. So I guess we can hope that the Chinese will pay attention to what witschi's doing and give us a really nice timing machine at maybe $500 may be less? Add in all is missing features that would be helpful especially in this discussion like to have in our oscilloscope see what's really being picked up.

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A little background of how and why did the comparison. Seattle's an interesting place for watch repair schools as originally started with one school. Before wostep and Rolex came in they had an evenin

The point of gain is to increase/decrease the amplification of the signal. If the suspicion is that it's not picking up part of the waveform because it's muffled by the movement holder, turning up the

Answer is quite simple. The noise is too quiet with mov holder (for this TM). Tick noise consists of mainly 3 pulses, the first being by far the lowest (most times). If the TM misses the first, i

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The main reason I bought this used Seiko 5 Sports watch on eBay ($91/£66/€78) was that I wanted to try my hands at the classic Seiko 7Sxxx Japanese workhorse movement, housed in millions and millions of watches. In this case a calibre 7s36b. The watch was beat up, the colours on the hollows on the bezel were all gone, and the movement was definitely in need of a service. Anyway, I thought that if I could successfully service it, it could become a nice daily beater, and I would learn about Japanese movement design in the process. What an exciting project!

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Having put my heart and soul into servicing the movement, repainting the bezel, etc., this is how I was" rewarded", or so I thought. Looking at the graph it was “obvious” that something was seriously wrong, likely something related to the escapement. Being passionate about watches and what I do, I immediately blamed myself and I felt more than disappointed. Depressed would be a better word, especially as I had been relentless in my efforts to get everything as perfect as I possibly could. I wore it for a week or so, and to my surprise it did well, losing just a few seconds per day. However, the memory of that graph kept torturing me until I put it away in my “box of failed watches”. At that time, I just didn’t have the energy to try to deal with it.

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Same Seiko watch, same conditions, with the only exception of the gain regulator on the TM being pushed to its maximum, and what do you know. Looks like I didn’t do such a bad job after all, and it’s now merrily ticking away on my wrist. Of course, the only reason I came to think of this Seiko was the Omega (the subject of this thread) giving me, yet again, very distressing TM results.

With the Omega I had to push the gain regulator to its minimum to arrive at the video verified truth. With the Seiko I needed to push the gain regulator to its maximum. And it makes sense. The Omega is very loud. Think "Intro-to-the-60-minutes-show-loud". The Seiko on the other hand is very silent.

So again, how can we trust our cheap Chinese TMs? Well, if we have a watch that we, on good grounds, can determine is in a poor condition (like the examples in John’s post) then perhaps we should be suspicious of the results we’re getting if they are looking too good. However, if we know we’ve done a good job servicing and repairing, and we get a consistent result on the TM after adjusting the TM gain regulator, then I believe we can be fairly sure that what we are seeing is near enough to the truth. And for a few hundred dollars that’s good enough for me. At least for now!
 

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1 hour ago, VWatchie said:

Same Seiko watch, same conditions, with the only exception of the gain regulator on the TM being pushed to its maximum, and what do you know.

Yes, that happens sometime. The gain control is there for that exactly.

You should be able to get virtually zero beat error and +5 s/d on the instrument. Then check what rate difference you get crown down, it can easily be minus 30 s/d and not easy to correct. Also an amplitude bigger than your is difficult to obtain on used movements. However I would not be surprised if it keeps good timekeeping even like that.

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With the Seiko I needed to push the gain regulator to its maximum. And it makes sense. The Omega is very loud. Think "Intro-to-the-60-minutes-show-loud". The Seiko on the other hand is very silent.

Being silent is a good thing in a mechanical watch. It means that the escapement is precise and efficient, that is, less energy is wasted in producing sounds.

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So again, how can we trust our cheap Chinese TMs? 

I think they do work well and reliably. For the interested reader, below he full topic on the subject.

 

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3 hours ago, VWatchie said:

Same Seiko watch, same conditions, with the only exception of the gain regulator on the TM being pushed to its maximum, and what do you know. Looks like I didn’t do such a bad job after all, and it’s now merrily ticking away on my wrist. Of course, the only reason I came to think of this Seiko was the Omega (the subject of this thread) giving me, yet again, very distressing TM results.

The problem is not unique to the Chinese timing machines. I've seen this at work previous watchmaker who was doing Rolex watches was having a bickering match with the boss over a particular watch. Which meant that I got it because I'm the timing machine expert conclusion it was watch case was too big and heavy. I don't remember what we did about the problem sometimes if you make sure the crown is touching where the sensor is it helps but not always.

This comes up for Seiko watches? We get a fair number of Seiko watches in for regulation somebody wants to keep really good time because the factory just adjusts to the specifications they don't adjust to perfect. Put it on the machine looks like total crap or just really bad.. Taken out of the case and usually looks decent.

It's back to the timing machine needs a good clean signal. Heavy watch cases, movement rings that insulate the movement from the case, really quiet movements a variety of things cause the timing machine that have an issue. This is also where it's up to the user to grasp the you're having an issue and see which you can do about it which means take the movement out of the case.

 

 

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