Cleaning Fluids

[mlfloyd1]

I’ll use lighter fluid, discard in a 1/2 cup of cat litter, then let it evaporate.

My township tells me to add cat litter to discarded paint then set it out for pickup.


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[Ligne]

I'm fortunate to have an ACS900 cleaning machine and wondered how you guys would choose to fill the jars...

The user manual suggests:

Jar 1 - cleaning solution (I use the L&R #111 ultrasonic)

Jar 2 - cleaning solution OR rinsing bath. Which would you use?

Jar 3 - rinsing bath (I use L&R no 3 watch rinsing solution)

Jar 4 - cleaning or lubrication bath

Position 5 - empty

 

So, how would you fill jars 2 and 4? I'd be curious to know

 

Thanks!

[clockboy]

I have a three jar machine. First jar a cleaning solution the next two rinsing solutions. For me the best results have been with L&R solutions.

[Ligne]

Thanks, I think clean clean rinse rinse is the system! I'm not sure what the "lubrication bath" would be... is that a thing?

[oldhippy]

You use 1 cleaner and three rinse. L & R is the best.

[nickelsilver]

There is a product that can be used as the final rinse, or added to it, which supposedly lubricates the watch and eliminates the need to oil. It was popularized in the 70s along with cleaning assembled watches. The dark ages of watchmaking.

Thanks, I think clean clean rinse rinse is the system! I'm not sure what the "lubrication bath" would be... is that a thing?

[oldhippy]

That product was very poor and never worked as it should have. I would leave that stuff alone.

[jakobvinkas]

Hello all, my name is Jakob.

I recently got into servicing mechanical watches at home. My question is now what i need (at minimum) to be able to start cleaning (and oiling) parts. 

I live in Sweden and can not seem to find any good cleaning solutions to buy. Is it a good idea to soak the parts in pure white spirit (mineral spirit) and then letting the parts dry? Is that enought? 

Then when it comes to oiling, what oils is a must? Is it enought to but Moebius 9010 and some Moebius 8300 Grease? Do I also have to get Moebius D5 or do I have to get even more?

Best regards Jakob, if I posted this in the wrong fashion please guide me to the right place.

[clockboy]

Most when starting use a ultrasonic cleaning bath. Then dry with a hairdryer. You can clean all parts by hand but it takes a while. Find this on the net:

https://watchtoolkit.co.uk/2017/02/27/cleaning-a-watch-movement/

[bsoderling]

Hi Jakob and welcome to the forum, we’re a few Swedes here that show up now and then.

Also an amateur I use the ”kemiskt ren bensin” you can buy from your local grocery store (ICA, coop) . It comes in plastic 200 ml bottles and the brand name is ”Gripen”. They do acethone and other stuff as well.

These days you will have to find that special place in the store where they keep the inflammable stuff.

I use (with warm tap water and some washing up liquid, not the bensin) a cheap ultrasonic machine I got from Kjell & co. Works fine for me.

So far my entire lubrication supply consist of 9010/9020 & 8200 grease and that has worked so far. Thinking of getting some other grease as I find the 8200 a bit too liquid at higher temp’s.









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[Jon]

14 minutes ago, bsoderling said:

So far my entire lubrication supply consist of 9010/9020 & 8200 grease and that has worked so far. Thinking of getting some other grease as I find the 8200 a bit too liquid at higher temp’s.









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1

I read that 8300 is used instead of 8200 at higher temperatures

[dieale2]

I found this post to be useful. Especially the part about refining petroleum.

I really don't like using lighter fluid because the purity of it is a pot shot. I was using Publix Quick Light and it leaves a lot of residue. The problem here is that they aren't meant for cleaning things. They COULD be pure naphtha but they could also not be. It's depends on the brand and not everyone has access to the same thing. Also, I get dizzy when I stand over parts soaked in lighter fluid. I use acetone to rinse it off but it's still a PITA.

I try to find all my solvents at Walmart or Home Depot because I am cheap. But it's confusing as hell to figure out what these products actually are. They are named by convention and not chemistry, so names like "paint thinner" could mean different things to the manufacturer.

For example, Klean Strip sells "Paint Thinner" and "Odorless Mineral Spirits." According to them, odorless mineral spirits is a purer version of paint thinner. But since you can use odorless mineral spirits as a paint thinner, it's confusing as to what "Paint Thinner" is...

Also, there are different types of solvents. Acetone is different from petroleum distillates. Since it's basically nontoxic and dries extremely fast, it's probably a good rinse solution.

I am probably going to use a petroleum based solvent and then rinse with acetone. For me, I will probably stick with "Klean Strip" line of products since they are cheap, widely available, and looks like high quality. For petroleum based solvents, there is "VM&P Naphtha", "Odorless Mineral Spirits", "Paint Thinner", "Xylene" and "Toluene." I am already having a hard time remember these names...

The differences between them is the boiling point. They have different properties and cleaning "powers". Not sure which is the best for cleaning watch parts since they all can clean grease.

[dieale2]

You can also just use a degreaser with water as a first stage then rinse with acetone. Aqueous solvents can be as good as petroleum based ones. Here are some interesting case studies complied by the EPA. Imo, a lot people are using lighter fluid because that's what watchmakers of the past used. Watchmakers used the best they had which was benzene or lighter fluid.

But the world is a different place and there are many solvents available especially for non-hazardous ones.

More choices more confusion...

Edited August 20, 2018 by dieale2

[mlfloyd1]

This is quite an education.

 Thanks 

[dieale2]

I tried using water and it had two big issues. First, water melted the shellac. I couldn't believe it and thought it was heat. But I ran the same pallet fork in mineral spirits and it was fine. It could be the detergent and ammonia solution I used, but again I need to confirm it.

Edit: turns out it was the detergent and ammonia I was using. This woodworker dissolved shellac in water using borax which is a common detergent. Since I also added ammonia, it probably made te situation worse. Learn new things everyday...

Edit2:  Another thread. A chemist mentioned using ammonia would dissolve shellac.

Second, sometimes I leaves parts in the cleaner for long periods of time because I forget or need to do something. Turns out mineral spirit and water separate each other. You end up with a pool of water at the bottom and you end up rusting parts because of that.

Acetone dissolves water since they are both polar. Seems like that's a better choice for a rinse if you want to use water based cleaners.

Edited August 29, 2018 by dieale2

[Watchtime]

a friend of mine who is a professional watchmaker in germany uses isopropanol for mvts, nothing else.

 

[perfectkyo]

 

Has anyone understood this kind of washing liquid?
What is the reason why the parts washer can't completely dry the parts?

[clockboy]

I guess this is the wrong cleaner for this style of machine. These are the ones I use. The only other thought is the heater working.

 

[perfectkyo]

My parts dealers mistaken the way the product is used and I am also using the wrong one.

2 hours ago, clockboy said:

我想这是这种风格的机器的错误清洁剂。这些是我使用的。唯一的另一个想法是加热器工作。

 

 

[phydaux]

 So I know I’m going to need some kind of cleaning set up, but there’s no way I’m dropping $700 for a proper cleaning machine.   Not when I can get an ultrasonic cleaner off Amazon for fifty bucks.  

 So I’m thinking I’ll get a bunch of those screw-top mesh baskets to put all of the watch parts into.   Then I’ll get three jars, one for wash, one for first rince,  and one for final rinse.   After final rince I figure I can put the baskets on some paper towels and dry everything with a blow dryer.  

 I figured I could use something as simple as a mason jars.   I’m concerned about putting glass jars in the ultrasonic cleaner, though.   I’m afraid that after a few uses the glass would shatter.   I suppose I could use plastic jars, but I have no idea where to get cheap, clear plastic jars.  

 I know there are specific solutions that I’m supposed to use.    Can I get away with just using ammonia & water for the cleaning,  distilled water for the first rince,  and rubbing alcohol for the final rince?  

Does anyone else use anything similar  as an inexpensive cleaning station?     Or anything vastly different but still not too expensive?  I figure I can put together the set up above for about hundred and a half,  and I like that better than 700 for a proper cleaning station.   

[clockboy]

I did purchase a cheap ultrasonic cleaner from a retailer (Lidl) those in the UK will be aware of this shop. However it is crap compared to my half decent one I purchased a few years back. In fact I now only use it now for watch bands once I have pre-cleaned them. The cheap ultrasonic's do not vibrate (sorry don't know thew correct terminology) enough be effective. The better quality machines have up to 40khz of action and more than one transducer. The old story you get's what you pay for. Also size matters ie if you are just going to clean watches then a small tank will be fine but if you are going to clean clocks then you will need a bigger tank. Some say you should not clean clock parts with an ultrasonic but I do with (so far) no issues.

[phydaux]

Thanks clockboy.   So 40 hz of action, and preferably more than one transducer.   

Do you put small parts directly into the ultrasonic cleaner, or do you put them inside something?

[phydaux]

Also do you use “approved” cleaning & rinsing solutions or your own secret sauce?

[clockboy]

I put them in a container preferably a mesh style container so retrieving them is easy and also drying them using a hairdryer is made easy. What ever ultrasonic you choose check the Hz. I notice those sold by Cousins are 37Hz. 

[clockboy]

I have experimented with many solutions. I have been using Elma 1:9 for my clock bits. However be aware of the workspace you are working in some solutions are really pungent. I purchased ultrasonic carburettor cleaner and it stunk the house out. Wife was not happy.