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I have used naptha and isopropanol for years. With good result. Bought some Elma 1:9 fluid recently just to test if it would be cleaner? Not so impressed that i would go over to it. The parts gets a little shinier but thats it. And it destroys my fingers and skin as it contains Ammoniac. However it's very economical as a bottle of fluid cost  £25- £30 and then diluted 1:9 . Where protection or rinse in water afterwards. 

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So I could buy some Naphtha and place a small amount in a jar and clean each part wearing gloves and give the plates a quick brush down. Then into another jar of naphtha and a final rinse in isopropyl? No need for a U/S machine? That'd be great if so sounds doable for me atm. Shellac is fine in the naphtha but not in the isopropyl? Finally how long should I leave each part in for? Also, since I would be using a small amount of solvent is it fine to let it evaporate outside? Sort of like this video? 

 

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Actually I may think about using Ronsonol lighter fluid and a brush. If I go this route should I do a rinse in alcohol or another rinse in lighter fluid? Or is one time in the fluid good enough? Also, is lighter fluid safe on the balance and pallet fork? Also, I assume it's safe for the jewels as well? This sounds like the best solution for me! I know it's tedious but I like the simplicity of it. Later on I will buy a fancy watch parts cleaner.

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Here is what I am thinking about doing in this order. Please make any suggestions or corrections! (can't edit the previous post so don't mind repeated questions)     I would pour some lighter fluid into a glass cup. Using my tweezers I would dip each part (how long do I leave them in it?) and after I would take them out and lightly brush them. After that put them on watch paper of blow them dry? Should I be doing a rinse of any sort or is that good enough? I am not going for any awards or anything I just want to be able to take a watch that wants to run and make it so it runs smoothly. Is lighter fluid safe on shellacked parts? Are the jewels safe in the fluid as well? Would this be safe for older pocket watches as well? Thanks for any advice, I greatly appreciate it!

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1. You can leave everything in naptha / lighter fluid / alcohol for as long as you like, except for the pallet fork and balance. In both cases the jewels are retained with shellac. I have seen various tests done on shellac to see how quickly it will soften in different chemicals, but the basic conclusion is that it's unpredictable.

2. How long you need to leave parts to soak depends on how grubby they are. A rinse in naptha or alcohol will remove fresh oil, but old oil can be very stubborn. I would leave for at least 10 minutes before attempting to clean mechanically.

3. If you have a dirty watch, use 3 jars - 2 with naptha and 1 with alcohol. Start by cleaning the cleanest parts first. Soak in first jar, clean by hand, rinse in 2nd jar then finally in alcohol which should remove traces of any residues.

4. For cleaning you will need at least a 10x loupe, a brush, some pith wood and some sharpened pegwood. Use the pegwood to clean any caked on debris from jewels and pinion leaves, the pith to clean pivots, and the brush for everything else. If the parts start to dry out while you're cleaning them you may need to dip them back in the naptha. Use the loupe to check for cleanliness and for damage / wear.

5. If you don't like wearing rubber gloves, get some finger cots - you don't need to put them on every finger!

6. After the final rinse in alcohol the parts should air dry quite quickly.

7. When I work like this I cover the jars with a double layer of cling film to stop the chemicals evaporating and only open as required.

8. As you clean and dry each set of parts, move them to a clean covered parts container to keep them safe and clean. In my case that's an old ice cube tray... again with cling film over it. I like to keep parts in groups to make reassembly easier.

Did I miss anything important anyone?

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 I can't buy an expensive 3 jar machine or anything like that. I was looking at a Harbor Freight ultrasonic machine and maybe putting some glass jars in it. I would buy LR ultrasonic cleaner and rinse. I'd clean the parts for 6 minutes in the cleaner and then rinse for 3 minutes all in the ultrasonic. However, the solvents are very expensive at $50 each since you can only get gallons.

Really need not overshoot on that. Automatic, vintage, multiple jars machine are fetishes for tooolheads which also enjoy restoring them. Same for U/S cleaners, vibrations are the same no matter how much you paid for them. My Chinese one broke but I'm not in a hurry to replace it. Also, liquids are no big dead, these expensive "professional" ones are just overpriced common chemicals, where you have two choice, ammonia based or not. I buy rectified benzine and IPA by the liter and they are cheaper than a lunch out.
You will find that watch repair is -fortunately- not so much about brands, but your own ability and ingenuity.

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  • 2 months later...

Hi I have a super elite Elma . 1st rinse I'm using Elma 1:9 solution and benzene for the other 2. Funny thing is after about 8-9 washes. The Elma 1:9 1st wash solutions always have a lot of foaming. Is this normal? Do I need to change solution? How many washes before having to change solution? Also what speed should o run the machine at? Min max or medium during wash? Can advice? Thank you everyone

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Newbie to the forum so hello to everyone, my first post! I have been quite lucky and got a very nice Elma super elite cleaning machine from Ebay in Australia recently for not very much (so I couldn't say no!) Looks like a 1970's vintage but it looks like new!

I have been restoring clocks for years and have only just got into the world of watches (Wow is everything smaller!). I used to complain about re-pivoting a French escape wheel... not any more, at least I can see the pivot! :wacko:

I have a question in regard to if Shellite (known as naptha in the US) is ok/safe to use in these machines? There is only one supplier left here in Australia that I have been able to find who sells the L&R watch cleaning solutions and they are over $100 per container so am considering other options. I have lots of clock "brew" lying around but that is not suitable of course. I have always used Shellite in the final stages of clock cleaning and never had a residue issue. I have done some French polishing in the past on clock cases so I know not to use any form of alcohol on parts such as hairspring and pallets. Some French clocks have the same issue with jeweled escapements.
I may of course just bite the bullet and buy the professional solutions.... Never had any rust issues with my water based cleaning solutions for clocks after rinses with Shellite and drying. However I am aware that watch parts may be very difficult to eradicate all the moisture even though my machine has a very nice drying chamber!
Does the Elma 1.9 solution have any fans here as this is what my machine is "supposed" to use?
Thanks guys.

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Shellite is good for the rinse, but you do really need proper cleaning solution for the initial wash.

I use turps 70% to 80% shellite 20% for the first rinse and 100% shellite for final rinse.

At my watch cleaning school we make our own watch cleaning fluid, but its not really practical to make your own for just yourself as some of the active ingredients and very expensive and unless you are making 20 litres or more it isn't worth doing.

Unfortunately there really isn't an alternative to buying the real watch cleaning solution, but save yourself some money and skip buying their rinse.

Where in Australia are you?

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15 hours ago, praezis said:

Do not use naphta at all, it may explode (if it is what we in Germany call 'Benzin')!

I use Elma 9:1 myself and I am satisfied with the results. 2nd jar destillated water, 3rd jar Isopropanol.

Frank

Thanks Frank. Shellite/Naptha is very similar I think to Benzene. It certainly did concern me that an electric motor was running directly above that very flammable solution! What do you do with the pallets and hairspring when it comes to jar 3?

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15 hours ago, Tmuir said:

Shellite is good for the rinse, but you do really need proper cleaning solution for the initial wash.

I use turps 70% to 80% shellite 20% for the first rinse and 100% shellite for final rinse.

At my watch cleaning school we make our own watch cleaning fluid, but its not really practical to make your own for just yourself as some of the active ingredients and very expensive and unless you are making 20 litres or more it isn't worth doing.

Unfortunately there really isn't an alternative to buying the real watch cleaning solution, but save yourself some money and skip buying their rinse.

Where in Australia are you?

Thanks for the tips. I'm in Sydney. Is the fluid you make water based? Do you think running Shellite in the machine/jars is safe given what the other poster has just said, as there is an electric motor running very close and these can generate sparks. This is possibly a 40 year old electric motor and the brushes on these are probably not great.

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I'm in Perth, so the other side of the continent.

I'm yet to get hold of a traditional watch cleaning machine so at the moment just use an ultrasonic cleaner with the fluids, but we use the same fluids in school in a machine like yours.

I can't comment on your specific machine, I will leave that to your own judgement on how safe you feel it is to use it.

The fluid we make for cleaning watches is also identical to the branded cleaning products and is a non water based cleaner.

For clocks I use a water based cleaner, but not for watches.

If you go look up the SDS for L&R cleaning fluids you will see for both their cleaning and rinsing solutions they contain around 20% shellite. (With the rinsing solution basically being 80% turps 20% Shellite)

The only reason I use 100% shellite for my final rinse is it evaporates much faster than the 80% turps 20% shellite mix.

But I am very careful to not to have the heater on and I only use small amounts in a jar in a bath of water that I change for fresh water once it heats up to about 35C with the ultrasonics.

You can probably get away just using the 80% turps, 20% shellite for the first and final rinse as your machine will spin off most of the fluid, something I can't do with an ultrasonic machine, which is a less volatile solution to just straight Shellite.

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  • 1 month later...

L&R #111 Ultrasonic Cleaning Solution is a cleaner and needs to be followed up with a rinse.

L&R #3 Watch Rinsing Solution is a rinse and should follow a cleaning bath.

Neither is an all in one cleaner and rinse combined.

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If you need to save money for the rinse you can follow with the first rinse of 50/50 Turps and Shellite (Lighter fuel - Naphtha ) and a final rinse of just shellite. Just be very careful as Shellite is very volatile so keep an eye of temperature in the solution and don't use a heater.

This is only for if your cleaning solution you are using is a waterless cleaning solution

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