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Sounds about right.Actually all that applies to most things under my kitchen sink..Its the same stuff we all fill our b..... cars up with but Ive never read all that printed on the pumps. Hope we get out of the EU before the Eurocrats insist on E10 Ethanol petrol which is a solvent and destroys everything in sight. An oil industry chemist told me once that unleaded petrol is far more harmful than the old leaded four star

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Well to sum up I have found Naphtha or lighter fuel sold under many brand names Ronson, Zippo, etc is ideal for cleaning watches, leaves minimal residue and is very cheap to purchase. I have even used it in an ultrasonic cleaner diluted with a propriety ultrasonic watch cleaning fluid which in its self is toxic and highly inflammable. Of course I don't drink it, sniff it, bathe my eyes in it or tip it in the fish pond.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

For a budget watch such as that one, I think a soak in lighter fluid (and pegging the holes) is a reasonable suggestion. 

Alternatively, another budget suggestion is to use Cillit Bang degreaser (yes, I can’t believe I just suggested that either) which also brightens metal. I have used that in a pinch for bare brass clock parts before. 

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I don't advice to use any old cleaning agent. These modern cleaners off the shelf who knows what damage they can do. Never ever use anything like Cillet Bang on antique clocks (antique) I mean any thing from the first decade of the 20th century. Heaven knows what it can do to brass and steel. You might think it looks nice to have a bright shining movement but that doesn't make it go.  

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/25/2020 at 12:34 AM, jdm said:

And then IPA is great final rinse because it absorbs water so to make drying faster.

That's very true, but I also noticed that it makes the parts (look?) ultra clean when I use it as a final rinse in my cleaning machine. Much better, more affordable, and less smelly than Elma Suprol Pro.  I've been trying all sorts of methods but I do get the best results using my cleaning machine.

Jar 1: Elma Red 9:1, 5 minutes
Jar 2: De-ionized water, 90 seconds.
Jar 3: Isopropanol 60 seconds

Plus, I run the motor like crazy (better results!) which makes the Elma Red look like pink milk ?

EDIT: I always clean the pallets manually to avoid having to re-fit the pallet stones, unless the shellac is already in a poor state or I see the need to adjust the locking depth.

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  • 1 month later...

Based on some recent comments I received on watch cleaning, I purchased Zenith Drizebrite “the ultimate final rinse “. My plan was to still clean the movements with lighter fluid by hand and then clean them with Drizebrite again by hand. Any comments on doing this. This was to remove any film that lighter fluid may leave.

6FC5B645-BD8B-4941-9B05-161A135628CE.jpeg

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9 hours ago, jdrichard said:

My plan was to still clean the movements with lighter fluid by hand and then clean them with Drizebrite again by hand. Any comments on doing this. This was to remove any film that lighter fluid may leave.

I recommend using one or the other but not both lighter fluid and Drizebrite. Just duplicate work. Geeky chemistry explanation below.

Both Drizebrite and lighter fluid (e.g. Ronsonol) are petroleum distillates classified as "naptha". Both are mixtures of many individual chemical compounds, not just one pure material. During petroleum distillation, certain mixtures or "fractions" are taken where the liquid boiling off at a range of temperatures is collected together. These fractions can be used as mixtures (e.g. gasoline, diesel fuel, mineral spirits, naptha, etc.) or purified further to give pure compounds (e.g., butane, heptane, octane, etc.)

The CAS numbers for Drizebrite and Ronsonol are different, meaning their chemical compositions are different (although there may be some individual compounds in the mixtures of both in common). The CAS database states a higher temperature range and longer-chain hydrocarbon mixtures for the Drizebrite vs. Ronsonol, so the Drizebrite will likely take longer to evaporate off fully than the Ronsonol.

This composition of mixtures can be seen when you leave a big puddle of lighter fluid on your bench mat. The more volatile compounds evaporate quickly but the less volatile ones leave a ring of a residue. If you wait, that residue will slowly evaporate as well, usually going away completely in several hours.

That is why I used to only use Ronsonol for cleaning parts. However, I now usually reassemble a movement within a couple of hours of cleaning, so my final rinse is 99.9% isopropanol just to remove the residual lighter fluid.

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17 hours ago, fixermole said:

I recommend using one or the other but not both lighter fluid and Drizebrite. Just duplicate work. Geeky chemistry explanation below.

Both Drizebrite and lighter fluid (e.g. Ronsonol) are petroleum distillates classified as "naptha". Both are mixtures of many individual chemical compounds, not just one pure material. During petroleum distillation, certain mixtures or "fractions" are taken where the liquid boiling off at a range of temperatures is collected together. These fractions can be used as mixtures (e.g. gasoline, diesel fuel, mineral spirits, naptha, etc.) or purified further to give pure compounds (e.g., butane, heptane, octane, etc.)

The CAS numbers for Drizebrite and Ronsonol are different, meaning their chemical compositions are different (although there may be some individual compounds in the mixtures of both in common). The CAS database states a higher temperature range and longer-chain hydrocarbon mixtures for the Drizebrite vs. Ronsonol, so the Drizebrite will likely take longer to evaporate off fully than the Ronsonol.

This composition of mixtures can be seen when you leave a big puddle of lighter fluid on your bench mat. The more volatile compounds evaporate quickly but the less volatile ones leave a ring of a residue. If you wait, that residue will slowly evaporate as well, usually going away completely in several hours.

That is why I used to only use Ronsonol for cleaning parts. However, I now usually reassemble a movement within a couple of hours of cleaning, so my final rinse is 99.9% isopropanol just to remove the residual lighter fluid.

I could finish off with alcohol as well but I think the lighter fluid does great. As well it does not mess with the shellac on the impulse jewel or pallet fork jewels.Thanks btw for the detailed explanation. I am an Electrical Engineer by degree and not a chemist:)

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16 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Ronsonol is naptha, white gas is also naptha, and so is Coleman camp fuel.  Are they interchangeable?  I have a ton of white gas (aka camp stove fuel) thus my reason for asking.

LWS, I think it is dangerous to use the term "interchangeable." Similar to both Ronsonol and Drizebrite, Coleman fuel (aka white gas) is also a mixture of hydrocarbons and classified as naphtha.

I am not a petroleum chemist and there are several aspects of the classification and description of naphthas that are unclear. But they are all mixtures of low-boiling hydrocarbons that should dissolve oily, greasy watch parts similarly. I would give it a try but would still rinse with isopropanol.

What I did notice in the MSDS for Drizebrite is a boiling point range of 300-350 degrees F, which is a relatively narrow range for naphtha; so I highly suspect that the manufacturer further purified whatever they got off the truck or out of the bulk supplier barrel. I didn't see this info in the others' sheets so it's unclear whether they are further purified or not. Some technical things like this are kept as trade secrets, but sometimes the companies just don't bother to fill in on the sheets as completely as they could.

For those that care, the CAS number for Ronsonol lists a composition of predominantly 4-carbon thru 11-carbon compounds; that for Drizebrite lists predominantly 6-carbon thru 13-carbon compounds; and that for Coleman fuel lists predominantly 6-carbon thru 9-carbon compounds. So, likely a lot of compounds in common and a lot not in common.

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On 1/16/2021 at 6:23 PM, fixermole said:

LWS, I think it is dangerous to use the term "interchangeable." Similar to both Ronsonol and Drizebrite, Coleman fuel (aka white gas) is also a mixture of hydrocarbons and classified as naphtha.

I am not a petroleum chemist and there are several aspects of the classification and description of naphthas that are unclear. But they are all mixtures of low-boiling hydrocarbons that should dissolve oily, greasy watch parts similarly. I would give it a try but would still rinse with isopropanol.

What I did notice in the MSDS for Drizebrite is a boiling point range of 300-350 degrees F, which is a relatively narrow range for naphtha; so I highly suspect that the manufacturer further purified whatever they got off the truck or out of the bulk supplier barrel. I didn't see this info in the others' sheets so it's unclear whether they are further purified or not. Some technical things like this are kept as trade secrets, but sometimes the companies just don't bother to fill in on the sheets as completely as they could.

For those that care, the CAS number for Ronsonol lists a composition of predominantly 4-carbon thru 11-carbon compounds; that for Drizebrite lists predominantly 6-carbon thru 13-carbon compounds; and that for Coleman fuel lists predominantly 6-carbon thru 9-carbon compounds. So, likely a lot of compounds in common and a lot not in common.

Message received!  I have ordered several bottles of Ronsonol!! 

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16 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Message received!  I have ordered several bottles of Ronsonol!! 

If you had ordered petroleum ether you would have got a proper horological product, and spent less. Lighter fluid is made to burn not to clean, and is not recommended by any manufacturer, professional school, etc.

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On 1/18/2021 at 4:31 PM, jdm said:

If you had ordered petroleum ether you would have got a proper horological product, and spent less. Lighter fluid is made to burn not to clean, and is not recommended by any manufacturer, professional school, etc.

Indeed, however if you can't get hold of "petroleum ether" lighter fluid is a reasonable substitute.
If you are doing things professionally I would stick to quality products, but for the hobbyist, lighter fluid works.

You could also use "white gas" Coleman stove fuel or similar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum_ether
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naphtha
 

 

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2 hours ago, AndyHull said:

Indeed, however if you can't get hold of "petroleum ether" lighter fluid is a reasonable substitute.
If you are doing things professionally I would stick to quality products, but for the hobbyist, lighter fluid works.

You could also use "white gas" Coleman stove fuel or similar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum_ether
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naphtha
 

 

Thanks.  I understand the professional aspect.  My dad ran his watch business for 40+ years using L&R products in his multistage cleaning/rinsing/drying machine.  I used it myself many times as a youngster.  So, I am not ignorant of the professional aspects.  But, indeed, you have pegged my situation correctly, I am in search of a hobby solution while maintaining full respect for what a professional should use.  I have "coleman" fuel as well, BTW.

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5 hours ago, AndyHull said:

If you can't get hold of "petroleum ether" lighter fluid is a reasonable substitute.

Petroleoum ether is sold on Ebay, so not difficult to get. In the end, motor petro (gasoline) is also very similar, and available to buy locally, 24 hrs a day, anywhere in the world. 

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5 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

I am in search of a hobby solution while maintaining full respect for what a professional should use.

Is there any objection to using professional solutions? Yes I know there's some minor problems you might object to the cost or you need to purchase a gallon of the cleaner in a gallon of the rinse. But depending on how fast you use it it might last for almost forever. Then the cleaner does do a really nice job as that's what it's designed to do.

It's amazing what Amazon has and supposedly is free shipping. I'm attaching an image I just did a search for l&r watch cleaning solution.

 

Amazon watch cleaning products.JPG

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6 hours ago, jdm said:
11 hours ago, AndyHull said:

...

Petroleoum ether is sold on Ebay, so not difficult to get.

Indeed, however not everybody lives in a country where ebay or Amazon operates, or where suppliers will ship to, or at least ship to at a realistic price, so for those readers, you may need to substitute one of the above suggestions.

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20 hours ago, AndyHull said:

Indeed, however not everybody lives in a country where ebay or Amazon operates, or where suppliers will ship to, or at least ship to at a realistic price, so for those readers, you may need to substitute one of the above suggestions.

Good point. At the same time I have found so far that anyone which asked so far was from a country where pretty much everything is available by online order. And petroleum ether (refined gasoline) is sold is all countries, because it has ample use in chemical laboratories and many other industries. Where I live, I can even buy it a the pharmacy (drugstore / apothecary).

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi all,

Not sure how successful this will be but I thought it would be a good idea to get lots of peoples methods of movement cleaning all in one easy to read place.

I've created this spreadsheet...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZsVCR5nO7VHckhFO8pi1O9BFFqpSr6f3lyqsf2TkOXg/edit?usp=sharing

Split into 3 sections, Hand, Ultrasonic and Machine.

I invite you to PM me with your methods so that I can add the information.  When PMing please use the templates I've created below.  If your technique doesn't fit into a column or you'd like to suggest new columns please reply on this thread.

Many thanks!

 

Hand Cleaning
Cleaning fluid                      :
Include balance(Y/N) / fork(Y/N)    :
Time / Minutes                      :
Rinse 1 fluid                       :
Include balance(Y/N) / fork(Y/N)    :
Time / Minutes                      :
Rinse 2 fluid                       :
Include balance(Y/N) / fork(Y/N)    :
Time / Minutes                      :
Drying method                       :
Notes                               :


Ultrasonic Cleaning
Machine                             :
Heater Temp / °C                    :
Cleaning fluid                      :
Include balance(Y/N) / fork(Y/N)    :
Time / Minutes                      :
Rinse fluid                         :
Notes                               :


Machine Cleaning
Machine                             :
Include balance(Y/N) / fork(Y/N)    :
Jar 1                               :
Time / Minutes                      :
Jar 2                               :
Time / Minutes                      :
Jar 3                               :
Time / Minutes                      :
Jar 4                               :
Time / Minutes                      :
Heater time / minutes               :
Notes                               :

 

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I have read through hundreds of posts and extracted what I could from peoples methods, adding them to the spreadsheet.  Please have a look through and if you spot your method and I've got it wrong please PM me with your corrections.

Many thanks to the people that have already sent me their methods.  If you haven't already, please PM me your method, the more the merrier.

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  • 2 months later...

Hello, noob watch repair enthusiast here.

I know you can use lighter fluid as a way to clean watch parts. While I understand this is not ideal to advanced hobbyists, I can’t justify investing in cleaning machines/solutions at this time.

With that said, I was wondering if you guys had recommendations for a specific lighter fluid brand (or naphta-based product) that you think does a good job at degreasing and cleaning watch parts.

Thank you in advance for your suggestions!

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