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Buser Breguet 182 balance

Norken

By Norken
in Watch Repairs Help & Advice

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Norken Member

Norken

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Hi! 

 

I have a Buser Breguet with a Buser 182 movement and am in the need of a new balance. It seems like a quite rare movement, most likely a Buser 180 but with breguet balance instead. 

No one here are in the possession on a balance? Or have any good ideas on where to find one? 


Thanks a lot!

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Norken Member

Norken

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1 hour ago, praezis said:

What happened to the original one? Disappeared?

Frank

Don't know - I'm getting help with this one and my guy said that the balance that is currently in there is not the correct one and does not have the breguet overcoil. Therefore the watch don't function as planned. Hence the hunt for a new balance have started.

1 hour ago, Nucejoe said:

Dr ranfft says no difference between buser 180 & 182,   no mention of breguet overcoil either.

I know - I think the only different is the balance. Please see on this page on a service of the movement (not my watch but mine looks exactly like it), in Swedish but Google translate should work. I guess this might be the only model using that movement and therefore it is not well documented. 

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Nucejoe Distinguished Member

Nucejoe

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41 minutes ago, Norken said:

I know - I think the only different is the balance. Please see on this page on a service of the movement (not my watch but mine looks exactly like it), in Swedish but Google translate should work. I guess this might be the only model using that movement and therefore it is not well documented. 

So, I guess your watch is a Modified version and you should redirect your search for Buser 182M.

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Norken Member

Norken

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5 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

So, I guess your watch is a Modified version and you should redirect your search for Buser 182M.

You think so? It only says 182 on the movement (like the one in the link) and it seems to be identical to that one. Why do you think it is modified?

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Nucejoe Distinguished Member

Nucejoe

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4 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

So, I guess your watch is a Modified version and you should redirect your search for Buser 182M.

Dose it run now?   if so you can rebuild this oscilator into a breguet overcoil.

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Nucejoe Distinguished Member

Nucejoe

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So if it runs now, you don't need a balance complete, all you need to do is to vibrate an overcoil hairspring with this balance wheel.

I say jumping from a flat to breguet overcoil certainly qualifies for modified branding.

To save us a lot of guessing, will you show a close up of  the movement from balance side.

Joe

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Norken Member

Norken

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11 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

Dose it run now?   if so you can rebuild this oscilator into a breguet overcoil.

Thank a lot for your help and tips! The watch is not in my hands right now but the guy helping me says he can get it to run but not any good. He have tried to rebuild it but not functioning very well so he thinks a new oscilator is needed and preferably a complete balance ?

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Norken Member

Norken

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7 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

So if it runs now, you don't need a balance complete, all you need to do is to vibrate an overcoil hairspring with this balance wheel.

I say jumping from a flat to breguet overcoil certainly qualifies for modified branding.

To save us a lot of guessing, will you show a close up of  the movement from balance side.

Joe

Thanks! Have asked for a picture ?

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Nucejoe Distinguished Member

Nucejoe

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Dropping a new balance complete in sure makes life easy, that you can do yourself.

If a repairman is charging you good money, he should be able to build a balance complete out of this with a compatible overcoil spring.

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Marc Distinguished Member

Marc

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23 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

So if it runs now, you don't need a balance complete, all you need to do is to vibrate an overcoil hairspring with this balance wheel.

This is unlikely. First of all it is unlikely that the regulator curb pins that are the correct fit for a flat H/S will correctly align with the terminal curve of the over-coil H/S, necessitating a different regulator.

Also an over-coil H/S needs more space between the balance wheel hub and the underside of the balance cock. So either a different balance wheel or a different cock may be required.

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Nucejoe Distinguished Member

Nucejoe

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29 minutes ago, Marc said:

This is unlikely. First of all it is unlikely that the regulator curb pins that are the correct fit for a flat H/S will correctly align with the terminal curve of the over-coil H/S, necessitating a different regulator.

Also an over-coil H/S needs more space between the balance wheel hub and the underside of the balance cock. So either a different balance wheel or a different cock may be required.

Repairman has told  OP an overcoil is needed. 

A picture is supose to come, to save us lots of guessing.

Regs

Joe

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Norken Member

Norken

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3 hours ago, Marc said:

This is unlikely. First of all it is unlikely that the regulator curb pins that are the correct fit for a flat H/S will correctly align with the terminal curve of the over-coil H/S, necessitating a different regulator.

Also an over-coil H/S needs more space between the balance wheel hub and the underside of the balance cock. So either a different balance wheel or a different cock may be required.

 

2 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Repairman has told  OP an overcoil is needed. 

A picture is supose to come, to save us lots of guessing.

Regs

Joe

Thanks both. My guy is a amateur watch repair guy however very qualified and good. He have serviced many watches for me before. What he said from the beginning was that the balance looked OK but that someone have put an incorrect hairspring on it that is not breguet. He then have tried to make the flat hairspring into a breguet one but it didn't work as planned. He can get the watch to run but not with any accuracy. He have then started to question if the balance in place is correct. Therefore we jointly have been on the look for a new hairspring that fit or a complete balance. But neither of us have had any luck and hence my question in the first post. We have found a balance to Buser 180 but that is a flat hairspring. Here is a picture of the movement as it looks now, will try to get a more detailed picture of the balance part.

ibIB0HO.thumb.jpg.196151dd40b103ebcb4ce6fa3d00ebdc.jpg

Edited by Norken
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Nucejoe Distinguished Member

Nucejoe

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We need  a close up of the balance wheel's side view, to see if balance staff is tall enough and built to accomodate an overcoil. In other words, the length of staff and thickness of the movement should be so to provide enought space for the overcoil.

The stud holder and regulator arm as best as my eyes serves me , look right for breguet spring. 

Vibrating a balance wheel with a compatible overcoil spring is a bit of advances task too, from your posts  I gathered your repairman is capable of shaping overcoil,  terminal curve and built an a complete balance to vibrate it with a compatible spring. 

 A spare balance complete at reasonable price( if you can find one) is ofcourse  your best bet.

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rogart63 Distinguished Member

rogart63

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Hi 

I am the repairman behind this. So sorry i can't get it to work. I tried modifing the hairspring to an overcoil . But no luck. Think the staff is worn to . So need a balancestaff and a hairspring. Not even  sure the balance wheel is correct As is everything else is wrong. Should have a Brequet overcoil hairspring . 99% sure of that. Unfortuntely it's beyond my experience to vibrate a new hairspring. Not even sure i can find a separate brequet hairspring. 

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Norken Member

Norken

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19 minutes ago, rogart63 said:

Hi 

I am the repairman behind this. So sorry i can't get it to work. I tried modifing the hairspring to an overcoil . But no luck. Think the staff is worn to . So need a balancestaff and a hairspring. Not even  sure the balance wheel is correct As is everything else is wrong. Should have a Brequet overcoil hairspring . 99% sure of that. Unfortuntely it's beyond my experience to vibrate a new hairspring. Not even sure i can find a separate brequet hairspring. 

Thanks Rogart :) thought you might be on here. I am looking under every stone I can find for a new balance. 

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Nucejoe Distinguished Member

Nucejoe

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On 3/22/2021 at 6:46 PM, Norken said:

You think so? It only says 182 on the movement (like the one in the link) and it seems to be identical to that one. Why do you think it is modified?

Sorry , I don't think I correctly answered your question.

Buser did make the 182M variant. 

I guess overcoil got the 182M designation, but overcoil fits in 182 as well as 182M.

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rogart63 Distinguished Member

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23 hours ago, Norken said:

Thanks Rogart ? thought you might be on here. I am looking under every stone I can find for a new balance. 

Been here for a long time. 6 years soon. Thnik it's 10 on KS . Or at least soon. 

 

22 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Sorry , I don't think I correctly answered your question.

Buser did make the 182M variant. 

I guess overcoil got the 182M designation, but overcoil fits in 182 as well as 182M.

Maybe it's better to look for a 182M balance. As to complicate it more there seam to be incabloc staffs and non shock versions of the 182. i have a bunch of 182 balance staffs . But they are a little bit shorter then the old incabloc staff on the movement.  I saw that balancestaff had new staff som that can be fixed. 

Edited by rogart63
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