Reassembling a watch

[NicholasG]

After taking apart an entire watch for cleaning, what system do you use to remember in what order to reassemble it. I understand(assume) it's in reverse order but all the parts get mixed up in the cleaning process so you also have to remember which parts belong together.

[mikepilk]

40 minutes ago, NicholasG said:

After taking apart an entire watch for cleaning, what system do you use to remember in what order to reassemble it. I understand(assume) it's in reverse order but all the parts get mixed up in the cleaning process so you also have to remember which parts belong together.

What's the movement - there may be a technical service sheet for it ?

There is a general sort of order - just watch any of Mark's videos.

When disassembling (take photos at each stage) I use containers with compartments - each compartment for a different set of components :  gear train, auto mechanism, keyless work etc.  Then, as I only have a small ultrasonic, I clean each compartment set at a time.

 

[Nucejoe]

I have always recommended taking pictures at each stage of disassembly, I don't believe anyone has ever listened.

There also diagrams for some calibers.

Back thirty five years ago, taking many pictures wasn't a cheap option, so I usually got at least two of the same calibers, one was an actual diagram for the other and supplied full house of spare parts.

Regs 

Joe

[watchweasol]

To find a tech/parts sheet we need to now the make and caliber of the watch, usually marked ubder the balance or on the front plate if there are any some dont-chinese ones.

[NicholasG]

31 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

 

Great advice, thank you all. I'll be taking apart an old working EMKA watch to clean and replace the very very scratched crystal.

[JohnR725]

3 hours ago, NicholasG said:

After taking apart an entire watch for cleaning, what system do you use to remember in what order to reassemble it. I understand(assume) it's in reverse order but all the parts get mixed up in the cleaning process so you also have to remember which parts belong together.

Ideally if you actually understand how the watch works you wll be able to recognize each of the components. Then it's just like putting a puzzle back together.

Also helpful to take pictures because we don't always like puzzles. If you start getting anything that's different and for newbe everything unfortunately is different. But for the rest of us anything that's different it's nice to have a picture because trying to figure out a puzzle gets to be tiring.

Then you do not necessarily put the watch back together in the exact opposite order that you took it apart. For instance a lot of times I will see people put the pallet fork in first when  reassembling and the reality is that will go in almost at the end.

2 hours ago, NicholasG said:

old working EMKA watch

Not helpful if you're expecting a tech sheet. It looks like they made more than one watch.

So this means I get the pick and choose and I choose this one.

http://www.emka-watches.ch/Site/EN/Mechanical/EN_Detail_Mechanic.php?recordID=1500

No notice that the model number is ETA 6498-2. What makes this particular movement of interest is it and 6497 they're basically identical with the exception where the secondhand goes. What makes them interesting is there a good basic movement to learn on. Which is why I'm attaching a technical sheet. Or basically most watches will resemble this.

_c_t_ct_6498-1_fde_482382_10 31.01.2020.pdf

[StickDog]

Without reference to your particular movement, so speaking in general terms, what most of us do is to group related parts together as we disassemble, keep those related parts together for cleaning, and then stage them together in groups for reassembly.  mikepilk shows the type of storage box most folks acquire after a while, but for starters you might use a free (and carefully cleaned!) styrofoam egg carton for the purpose.

So for example, you remove the train bridge and place its retaining screws and the wheels it secures (likely the escape, 4th, 3rd and center wheels) together.  Remove  and group together the crown wheel (and any parts that come off with it), the ratchet wheel, the click, click spring and retaining screw. Remove the barrel bridge (group it with the other bridges) and add securing screws, the spring barrel, barrel, lid, arbor to the other power unit parts.  Likewise with the keyless works, motion works, pallets, balance, etc.  Suggest you keep heavy parts like bridges separate from small parts like wheels to avoid damage.

Eventually all the parts of a watch will become very familiar to you and it will be easy to sort them into groups quickly and accurately even if they become mixed up.  Until then, notes and cell phone photos are very helpful, as are tech sheets for your particular movement (if available).  Now that I have a few years of experience, I can usually  proceed quickly and with no confusion.  The exception might be with keyless works -- these are of many different (sometimes subtly different) designs and I still frequently take photos of keyless works as cheap insurance.  

Agree with JohnR725 you will often assemble in somewhat different order than you disassemble.  For this reason, best to place parts into functional groups rather than try to spread them out one at time in order of disassembly.

Be comforted (or not) that in most cases a watch will resist being put together wrong.  If you get things mixed up, careful trial and error will eventually solve the puzzle and in about 95% of cases you won't be able to put the watch together wrong (at least without employing force and violence, which you must always avoid!)

Best of luck Nicholas G, and enjoy the learning curve!

[LittleWatchShop]

On 3/7/2021 at 9:43 AM, Nucejoe said:

I don't believe anyone has ever listened

I did!

[LittleWatchShop]

Yesterday, I took apart a Waltham 6/0-D (A-17 military watch).  I was in a rare mood and went total cowboy--no pictures during disassembly.  For simple watches with no date ring or other fancy stuff, it seems fairly straightforward how things have to fit together.  I was VERY mindful of screws and in this case, there was only two odd screws.  But...normally, I snap pictures.

I am going to replace the staff on this one, so I have taken lots of photos of the balance wheel.

[NicholasG]

1 hour ago, StickDog said:

Best of luck Nicholas G, and enjoy the learning curve!

Thanks very much for the advice. I will definitely use my iPhone. 

[KarlvonKoln]

Take comfort in knowing that repetition will allow you to develop a pattern.   I've done enough mechanical watches by now that, unless it's something unusual, I just know where all the parts go.  I haven't needed to photograph anything recently (knocking on wood). I always let down the mainspring first. I put the balance complete on my nifty little brass tack/table I made, and that, and the fork, get a special and separate cleaning. I put most of the screws back in their holes - and clean them individually later. I will sometimes still photograph the keyless works if the clicks and springs are arranged strangely. But generally, I have my rails and I run on them.  It helps me not forget something. 

Edited March 13, 2021 by KarlvonKoln

[les13]

On 3/7/2021 at 9:43 AM, Nucejoe said:

 I don't believe anyone has ever listened.

Joe, I for one have listened. I am still at the stage where I would never get a watch back together without many detailed pictures. Thanks to you and others I adopted this practice early on.

[NicholasG]

I’m about to start my first disassemble and reassemble of an old cheap pocket watch that doesn’t work; cannot wind mainspring. Thanks all for the valuable advice. Much appreciated. 

[Nucejoe]

14 minutes ago, NicholasG said:

I’m about to start my first disassemble and reassemble of an old cheap pocket watch that doesn’t work; cannot wind mainspring. Thanks all for the valuable advice. Much appreciated. 

Disclosing the caliber or posting a picture of the movement is a good start and helps to know what we are working on, then you tell us as best you can about the issue, history etc, you might be given a list of test to carry out that helps diagnostics, solutions will be discussed and we'll work with you till your watch get young and happy.

Do you see the ratchet wheel turn as you try to wind through the crown? 

if not, try winding through the ratchet screw.

Remove the hands and dial and show the keyless works. 

Report some such data and advice will pour in your thread.

Regs 

joe

 

[NicholasG]

Thanks for the advice Nucejoe. Since I’m a beginner at this, I’ll feel a great sense of accomplishment just to be able to disassemble and reassemble at this point. Once I succeed at this, I’ll follow your advice in determining the problem. 
Thanks again. 

[anilv]

I usually put them in groups in my tray. eg Balance, pallet fork stuff in one zone, mainspring and its bridges in another, ditto train wheels. For the dial side depending on how complex it is I might lump them all in one (eg Seikos) or I might further break it down. When it comes to chronos then sometimes there are not enough compartments!.

I usually clean by hand (in lighter fluid) so I clean as I start the assembly. If you're using a machine you can separate these groups using the partitioned cages but as mentioned above, you need to identify the various bits and screws.

One tip is to pay special attention to screws which hold a free moving wheel or lever as these are usually shouldered and fit in one position. Also the pallet fork bridge usually has a thin head to clear the balance. Using the wrong screw here might affect running as the balance lightly brushes the head of the wrong screw.

rgds

Anil

[NicholasG]

5 minutes ago, anilv said:

I usually clean by hand (in lighter fluid)

How long do you keep the parts in the lighter fluid? 

[anilv]

5 hours ago, NicholasG said:

How long do you keep the parts in the lighter fluid? 

just drop them in a small porcelain bowl and brush them with a cut down paint brush. Then peg the holes out and inspect under the loupe. If it still has dirt repeat. You really need to inspect the pinions carefully as dirt in there can be really hard to move.

If the movement is really dirty the plates get the toothbrush and soap while the wheels may get a dunking in acetone (not for pallet forks or balance as this will affect the shellac holding the pallet stones and roller jewels).

On some occasions you come across a watch that wont spin even when the pallet fork has been removed and the mainspring has been wound. For this I leave it submerged in lighter fluid for a while.. it will usually start spinning when the old oil has softened.

Anil

[mikepilk]

10 hours ago, NicholasG said:

How long do you keep the parts in the lighter fluid? 

I started with lighter fluid but now use a more pure naphtha I buy from ebay. I put the parts and naphtha in small glass beakers sat in warm water in a small ultrasonic (cleaning by hand is fine - but peg the jewels).

As lighter fluid/naphtha leaves an oily residue, I always do a final clean in isopropanol, which leaves no residue.

Note the IPA will dissolve shellac (pallet jewels and impulse jewel) but only slowly. I've tried an old pallet for 6 minutes in the ultrasonic with no noticeable problem.

Edited March 23, 2021 by mikepilk