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You can't, the time is fixed because the indexing motor runs a certain speed and it runs constantly until the basket drops into the next jar. You should concentrate instead on making sure the spi

Sorry, "You can't" might be a little strong.  If you give up on using the electro-mechanical timing and synchronizing system built into the machine out of simple cams and switches, and replace all tha

My rinse's jug just says L&R Ultrasonic Watch Rinsing Solution.  An older one waiting for disposal does say #3 though, I don't know what the difference is.  I use the ammoniated #111 cleaner.

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If you can't get an exact size, just get something slightly larger and file/sandpaper it down to the correct dimensions. If the pigtail wire is too long or has a different terminal, cut off the old terminal and spot weld or solder it to the new brush.

I do that all the time for the motors I repair.

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  • 3 months later...

I've got a couple of machines, a Mastermatic and a vari-matic.  I have to restore both, but started with the Mastermatic.  Got it torn down, but the basket motor is beyond my capabilities to restore.  Does anyone know of a shop in the US (I'd be glad to ship) that could handle the motor repair/restoration?

 

Thanks!

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  • 2 months later...

Folks,

I just purchased a Vari-Matic in perfect operating condition.  The numbers 12 29 67 are stamped into the hydraulic reservoir/aluminum base so I suppose it was made on 29 Dec 1967.

Does anybody know how to increase the spin-off time between stations?  I've found a couple YouTube videos from 2016 and 2011 but I can't reach those folks.  Can you please offer any advice or point me in the right direction?  I'd really like to make this modification but my electronics knowledge and skills are near zero.

Thanks!! Woody.

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You can't, the time is fixed because the indexing motor runs a certain speed and it runs constantly until the basket drops into the next jar.

You should concentrate instead on making sure the spin-off speed is as high as possible without causing the fluid in the jar to swirl around and splash up and out.  All the speeds are controlled together with the rheostat you can set with a screwdriver.  But the proportions of the speeds to one another are controlled by the taps on the wirewound resistor that you can move.  I forget the exact details ... do you have the manual?  It's all spelled out.

My machine was wired wrong when I got it, giving a spinoff speed that was slower than the drying speed.  The spinoff was useless and the drying would wake the dead.  The spinoff is supposed to be faster than the dry, and it works great with that fixed.  I have been using it for 15 years now...?  Probably ran it six times today.

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Just now, ChrisRadek said:

You can't, the time is fixed because the indexing motor runs a certain speed and it runs constantly until the basket drops into the next jar.

Sorry, "You can't" might be a little strong.  If you give up on using the electro-mechanical timing and synchronizing system built into the machine out of simple cams and switches, and replace all that with a computer of some kind, you can of course make it do whatever you want.  In my opinion that's unnecessary, and unnecessary computers should be avoided in things that I need to rely on for a long time.

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1 hour ago, ChrisRadek said:

You can't, the time is fixed because the indexing motor runs a certain speed and it runs constantly until the basket drops into the next jar.

You should concentrate instead on making sure the spin-off speed is as high as possible without causing the fluid in the jar to swirl around and splash up and out.  All the speeds are controlled together with the rheostat you can set with a screwdriver.  But the proportions of the speeds to one another are controlled by the taps on the wirewound resistor that you can move.  I forget the exact details ... do you have the manual?  It's all spelled out.

My machine was wired wrong when I got it, giving a spinoff speed that was slower than the drying speed.  The spinoff was useless and the drying would wake the dead.  The spinoff is supposed to be faster than the dry, and it works great with that fixed.  I have been using it for 15 years now...?  Probably ran it six times today.

Thanks, Chris, for the quick reply!  I sincerely appreciate your help!!  At 6 times/day for 15 years, you really know this machine ?.

Yes, I have the original manual.  I'll review it and the information you provided and take your advice.  I might have a followup question or 2 ...

One more question now: Do you use L&R #3 for your rinses? My big concern is fire.  My heating element gets very hot (but NOT red hot).  I'm worried the #3 rinse might ignite if droplets land on the hot heating element.  That's why I'm so concerned about spin-off before moving over to the heater.

Thanks again!!!!

Woody

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My rinse's jug just says L&R Ultrasonic Watch Rinsing Solution.  An older one waiting for disposal does say #3 though, I don't know what the difference is.  I use the ammoniated #111 cleaner.

After the dry cycle, the basket on mine is too hot to touch for a few minutes.  I doubt there is any appreciable risk of fire if you are using the solutions meant for the machine.  I think we would have heard about it?

I will be interested to hear if you determine yours is also wired wrong (or what I call wrong, anyway?) in the way that gives a faster dry and slower spinoff.

Oh, does your fan run when the heater is on?  It should.

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That's the same type of machine I had mine had the ultrasonic unit which the machine sits on and you just plug it in. That's the best machine I had using L & R  and I had had others in the workshop. 

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13 hours ago, ChrisRadek said:

My rinse's jug just says L&R Ultrasonic Watch Rinsing Solution.  An older one waiting for disposal does say #3 though, I don't know what the difference is.  I use the ammoniated #111 cleaner.

After the dry cycle, the basket on mine is too hot to touch for a few minutes.  I doubt there is any appreciable risk of fire if you are using the solutions meant for the machine.  I think we would have heard about it?

I will be interested to hear if you determine yours is also wired wrong (or what I call wrong, anyway?) in the way that gives a faster dry and slower spinoff.

Oh, does your fan run when the heater is on?  It should.

Thanks again, Chris!!

I read through the manual as you suggested and learned quite a bit (go figure!!).

To answer your questions:

1) Yes, my dryer fan runs perfectly.

2) I don't have a way to measure the basket rotational speed, but the spin-off speed seems to be faster than the drying speed .... or about the same.

The manual specifically lists L&R Extra Fine Watch Cleaning Solution and L&R #3 Watch Rinsing Solution as the recommended solutions.  I'll have to research the difference between the Extra Fine Watch Cleaning Solution and #111 but since you use #111, that's what I'll use, too.  It seems I have no worries about the #3 catching fire during drying.

How high do you fill your jars?  The manual says, "to the middle of the L&R on the jar".

When you clean watch parts, do you use the "Watch Basket" (smaller one) or the "Clock Basket" (larger one)?

If I'm reading the manual correctly, I should set the rheostat with the Clock Basket installed and the High-Low switch on High.  Then, set the adjustable resistor slider (Purple Wire) with the Watch Basket installed and the High-Low switch on Low.  Finally, set the drying speed with the other adjustable resistor slider (Orange Wire).

I think I'll do all my experimentation and adjustments with isopropyl alcohol.  That's a lot cheaper than the L&R solutions.

Thanks again for helping and sharing your experience.  I really appreciate it!!  Woody

20210304_130434.jpg

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I really only use the small baskets, I have three of them so I can fill one while another is running.  Often I use two baskets for the same watch, it takes two or more runs to clean everything, especially a chronograph or an 18s pocket watch where not everything will fit in there at once.

I have the ultrasonic unit so the jars have to be filled up above the L&R letters, and with the ultrasonic the fill level is very critical.  The fluid should be up the ultrasonic head about a cm when it's running.

If you are not using the ultrasonic I'd say fill them enough that the basket stays immersed when cleaning but is free of the fluid during spinoff.  It's not critical and you won't hurt anything if it's wrong.

I'm not so sure about using a bunch of alcohol...  that's really flammable and burns invisible, scary.  You can just run it with the jars empty for testing (but of course TURN OFF the ultrasonic if you have it).

Heck if you're just wanting to set your speeds and test spinoff etc, wouldn't water in the jars work fine?

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11 hours ago, ChrisRadek said:

I really only use the small baskets, I have three of them so I can fill one while another is running.  Often I use two baskets for the same watch, it takes two or more runs to clean everything, especially a chronograph or an 18s pocket watch where not everything will fit in there at once.

I have the ultrasonic unit so the jars have to be filled up above the L&R letters, and with the ultrasonic the fill level is very critical.  The fluid should be up the ultrasonic head about a cm when it's running.

If you are not using the ultrasonic I'd say fill them enough that the basket stays immersed when cleaning but is free of the fluid during spinoff.  It's not critical and you won't hurt anything if it's wrong.

I'm not so sure about using a bunch of alcohol...  that's really flammable and burns invisible, scary.  You can just run it with the jars empty for testing (but of course TURN OFF the ultrasonic if you have it).

Heck if you're just wanting to set your speeds and test spinoff etc, wouldn't water in the jars work fine?

Thanks again, Chris!!

I'm glad you only use the small baskets - the large one is almost impossible to remove!

I don't have the ultrasonic base, unfortunately.  But, I'm on the lookout for one.  Hopefully I'll find one!

Thanks for the concern and warning regarding my use of alcohol for testing.  I put it only in jar #1.  Jars #2 and #3 are completely empty so the basket is nearly dry by the time it gets to the heater.  I would have used water but I was concerned something might rust - I guess everything that gets wet is made of stainless steel.  The manual states, "The machine is used at High Speed when using the Clock Basket in order to compensate for the heavier load.  Actually, the basket will rotate at the same speed as in Low when using the Watch Basket.".  So, I used the alcohol for the viscous Drag on the basket.

Thanks again!!!! Woody

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