L&R Cleaning Machines

[BlakeL]

I posted this in another topic but thought I would put it in its own. I don't know much about these machines but I found this one on Craigslist for $90. They say it works, even heating functions. I'm willing to clean it up and put some new paint on it but hoping it's a good machine at a good price.

[ro63rto]

If it is fully functioning it is a very good price.

Check out the thread showing a refurb of a similar machine.

http://www.watchrepairtalk.com/index.php?/topic/899-L&r-Ultasonic-Vari-Matic-Re-Furbished

Edited January 4, 2015 by ro63rto

[Irishcain]

I have an L&R Master cleaning machine. I had emptied the jars and cleaned them when my daughter comes in to bring me for dinner. In the ensuing chase (she's 4 and likes to play with everything, more so when I tell her not to) one of the jars hits the floor. Arrrgh. Anyway, after doing some research, I found an interesting post on NAWCC that quart mason jars work well as a replacement. The post was from 2009, but I was wondering if anyone could confirm or dispute this. Trying to get an original online is going to take a while and I have a customer's pocketwatch (1950 Elgin) that I'm not going to put in the ultrasonic. Any input would be helpful.

[Geo]

Why won't you use the ultrasonic meantime? I've been using one for the last three to four years without any problem, just don't put dial and hands in it. There are a lot of others on here using ultrasonics too.

[clockboy]

Try cousins item NO. C7064 a Tornado jar I think they fit

[jnash]

or start the search for the same size jars in the supermarket, you may get lucky

[Irishcain]

Why won't you use the ultrasonic meantime? I've been using one for the last three to four years without any problem, just don't put dial and hands in it. There are a lot of others on here using ultrasonics too.

Normally I would. I've used ultrasonics often enough and generally like the results, but this Elgin has some gilding on the movement that my ultrasonic would peel off like a grape.

[Geo]

Normally I would. I've used ultrasonics often enough and generally like the results, but this Elgin has some gilding on the movement that my ultrasonic would peel off like a grape.

Good point sir!

Edited February 7, 2015 by Geo

[Irishcain]

So, just as a general update, I thought I'd share. The wife sent me to the market for a few items (I've a 6 month old that eats more than football players do), and while I was there I spied some quart mason jars on sale (4 for $3), and figured that I'd give it a shot. Got the jars, brought them home, and they fit like they were made for the machine. The basket carrier was lowered and all looked well except the nibs that hold the large basket kept catching the inside of the jar's lip. A couple laps with a 2nd cut file on each nib and there was now plenty of clearance. The only real problem left was the bottoms of the mason jars aren't flat like the L & R jars. Solved this by taking 2 pieces of 1/8" cork board and cutting them round to fit in the jar housing. Then I measured the bottom of the jar and cut out the center of one of the boards to form a ring, applied apoxy and stuck it to the second board. Lowered them in the housing, put the jar in place and it's as stable as the original was. Just finished a test and it works beautifully. I'll post some pictures as soon as I can figure out how to do it from my iPad.

[bobm12]

Excellent job and solution. Although I don't have the machine (I use a cheapo ultrasonic), I'll be interested in the pictures!

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[clockboy]

I don,y think we can purchase Mason jars here in the UK.I would like to look at the pics

[ro63rto]

You mean these?

www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B00B80TJIU/ref=redir_mdp_mobile/280-4146357-2786120

[jnash]

So, just as a general update, I thought I'd share. The wife sent me to the market for a few items (I've a 6 month old that eats more than football players do), and while I was there I spied some quart mason jars on sale (4 for $3), and figured that I'd give it a shot. Got the jars, brought them home, and they fit like they were made for the machine. The basket carrier was lowered and all looked well except the nibs that hold the large basket kept catching the inside of the jar's lip. A couple laps with a 2nd cut file on each nib and there was now plenty of clearance. The only real problem left was the bottoms of the mason jars aren't flat like the L & R jars. Solved this by taking 2 pieces of 1/8" cork board and cutting them round to fit in the jar housing. Then I measured the bottom of the jar and cut out the center of one of the boards to form a ring, applied apoxy and stuck it to the second board. Lowered them in the housing, put the jar in place and it's as stable as the original was. Just finished a test and it works beautifully. I'll post some pictures as soon as I can figure out how to do it from my iPad.

 

yep told you !  you can find ones that fit in supermarkets etc...  without the price tag! just have to be lucky and look 

 

Glad it worked out, 

[Irishcain]

Okay, lets see if I can get these pics on here correctly.

1st, I measured the opening for the jar housing. It came out to 4in (101.6mm), however the housing sloped inward, so I had to measure and cut the cork at 3 7/8in (98.42mm). Then I tested the clearance of the mouth of the jar and lapped .5mm of each of the nibs, reattached the part to the machine making sure it easily fits in and tested with the large basket attached.And voila, it works as well as the original. And with the screw-on lid, no escaping fumes when not in use.

[Irishcain]

You mean these?

www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B00B80TJIU/ref=redir_mdp_mobile/280-4146357-2786120

Those are the jars (though I got the green ones), but at that price, maybe I should start selling these on ebay instead of using them, lol.

[bobm12]

Fantastic fix Irishcain, I had heard about using those jars but could never figure out how they fitted. I thought they were completely interchangeable -- as per other people's talk -- and now I see! Good to know for when I get my own machine.

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[Irishcain]

Thanks Bob. I'm finding it a bit of a relief myself that I can change out the jars inexpensively too. I'm actually thinking of just replacing all the original jars with the mason jars now.

[clockboy]

Are the jars stable looks like a lot of room around them and retaining clips are missing. To much hassle for me, but if it works for you then why not.

[Irishcain]

I thought there might be too much room as well, but the bottom of the jar is quite snug in the housing and when I ran a test, there was almost no movement. I did make a couple of shims (my jars are square so I thought it prudent-you can see them in one of the pics), but the turned out to be unnecessary. They could still be used I guess, but it'd be a belt and suspenders situation.

[icius]

So I acquired a working L&R Master Watch Cleaner and I have the L&R cleaning and rinse solutions.  All I need now is the basket which is on its way (thanks Uncle Larry).

 

The parts basket has a main section and then a top section with four indentations.  

 

Like this:

 

http://www.execulink.com/~lfoord/2131a.jpg

 

What is the best way to load parts in this?

 

The L&R manual says to put all flat parts in the bottom basket (i.e. main plate and bridges etc.) and to distribute smaller parts in the indentations up top. 

 

Seems reasonable, but I have some concerns.  

 

1. How violent is the cleaning process?  The thought of plates smacking together in the bottom basket kind of makes me cringe.

2. I like Mark's idea of reassembling the balance on to the main plate for cleaning.  Do I dare throw the main plate with balance attached in the bottom of the basket with the rest of the plates?

3. Where can I put the mainspring?  Again the thought of plates crashing around in the bottom basket with the mainspring  makes me cringe.

 

Am I worrying too much?  Does anyone else have this type of basket?  If so how do you load your parts for cleaning?

 

Thanks all!

 

Adam

Edited March 20, 2015 by icius

[emso]

You put rhe hairspring on the plate and separate from all the rest of the parts, i separate all of the screws on one place to avoid scratches on platea and bridges escapement and pallet in the smallest separation,springs are not cleaned inside also mainspring is not cleaned in the machine

br

emso

p.s: sent from my s****y phone so sorry for typing mistakes

[dalarry]

hi Adam, i buy from uncle Larry often.

you must remove the hairspring from the balance before cleaning!

DO NOT put the hairspring in your machine.

i have a 3 jar unit myself. works very well.

don't spin too fast, not neccessary

Todd

[Geo]

Welcome to the forum dalarry. :)

Most folk on here, myself included fit the assembled balance onto the main plate once it has been completely stripped and then clean it. It can be either rotary wash (Elma type machine), ultrasonically cleaned or carefully rinsed in a jar containing lighter fuel.

You would give yourself a lot of extra work having to remove the hairspring from the balance for cleaning, and not everybody has the skills or equipment to reinstall the hairspring and adjust it correctly.

[icius]

The only guide I could find was a combination of the actual L&R Instruction Manual and this PDF (starting on page 6)

 

http://www.nawcc-index.net/Articles/LaBounty-ServicingAPlatform.pdf

 

So for better or worse,  this is how I loaded it:

 

 

 

I made an intermediate basket out of some stainless steel screen to hold the mainsprings.  This also keeps the plates on the bottom nice and flat.

 

 

 

 

It cleaned up beautifully (first run through the new L&R machine).  Hopefully I can get the hairspring back on the balance and adjusted correctly.  Wish me luck.

[bobm12]

Absolutely, good luck icius!