Jump to content
  • 0

Please help identifying this movement


Question

Dear friends,

I hope someone can help me identify this movement below (see photos).   I thought it was a BFG movement but on closer inspection, I noticed the letters ‘FB’ on the plate but unfortunately no calibre number.    The mainspring is broken inside the barrel and would like to get a replacement if I can find the calibre number.

Many Thanks,

Regards,

Yasser.

DBBD506D-5CEB-44A3-86F8-967DA3699D52.jpeg

F0BE7BFB-6084-4C45-AC89-D2D531A4932D.jpeg

AB41B3FA-39AF-4102-93B9-ECAD67324DE6.jpeg

E7A19640-1F47-4D5B-A8B8-962D616412F4.jpeg

66EB1BCE-D384-4DB3-9208-2ED2C46EE17A.jpeg

F5B996A9-13FC-49B1-ACE4-8E790928577D.jpeg

5383F770-EA9B-4E4B-8AB4-C74E9A64C6B2.jpeg

Link to post
Share on other sites

22 answers to this question

Recommended Posts

  • 0

Hi Would have been better posting the complete movement, members may be able to Identify it from the setting lever spring shape and the keyless works as a string of bits its hard work.  Its a pin lever movement.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Perhaps an Ebosa, can even be a baumgartner or langendorf.

Find us a trademark engraved on it some place, ebosa's mark is real small.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
10 minutes ago, Yasser said:

Hi Joe,

It just has FB inscribed/engraved on one the plates.  Very small.   I can’t see anything else engraved.

 

 

DF624703-54C1-46BF-BA99-C0F117D27E50.jpeg

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

I think Joe is right , as is just measure the spring  length - thickness - height and barrel diameter and look it up on cousins site for a GR spring  once assembled  a picture of the keyless work may lead to identification for you      thanks.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

One other point  Identification can be checked via the bestfit books of which there was a download link posted by Old Hippy some months ago They are to big to send as pdf's but find able via the search option on the top right of the screen,  worthwile finding them and downloading a copy.      cheers

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
1 hour ago, watchweasol said:

One other point  Identification can be checked via the bestfit books of which there was a download link posted by Old Hippy some months ago They are to big to send as pdf's but find able via the search option on the top right of the screen,  worthwile finding them and downloading a copy.      cheers

Sorry but would you have the link.  I tried the search but can’t seem to find it.    What shall I search for?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Hi,

Looking at the Bestfits catalogue, it seems it is a LAPANOUSE movement. Which one, it’s hard to say as atleast 2 of them are very similar on Pages 155 and 156.       The Ligne size is 13’’’ -13.5’’’ when measured on my movement.  Upper plate and bottom plate sizes have a 0.5 ligne difference.    The catalogue has some 13’’’ ligne listed but the parts don’t match.   However,  the two which do match are ligne sizes 10.5 and 12 respectively.

I guess as Joe and yourself suggested and to move this forward, it’s easier to measure the mainspring’s H x W x L and then see what’s available on Cousins.

Thanks for all your help guys. ?

Regards,

Yasser.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Hi Guys,

I have taken out the mainspring and here are the measurements with some additional comments:

1.  H x W x L  (in mm)

1.5 x 0.1 x 567 (please see note about the length.)

The 567mm was the total length of the two broken parts of the mainspring.  I rechecked and noticed that 6mm was folded over at the end which goes against the barrel wall.  Please see photo.

So, is it correct to assume that actual total length would be 567mm + 6mm = 573mm?    If so,  I need to find one which is approx between 570mm - 575mm.  Please advise.

2.  Please see the other photos.    The mainspring end which goes on the Barrel Arbor is I believe a TR type?  Can you please confirm for me? 

3.  The diameter of the barrel itself is 16.6mm.

4.  I checked Cousins in the GR section but they do not seem to have anything which matches the length PLUS the TR type.    Any other websites you can recommend?

Regards,

Yasser.

 

2A9D8815-E30D-4584-83B8-6796C04B25E6.jpeg

2829EC10-7DA4-4201-90B0-41272939C172.jpeg

6B97323F-1A2E-42A2-841B-E67F6353F3FA.jpeg

Edited by Yasser
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Is that the inner diameter of the barrel? That's the number you want. Regardless, it's a very wide barrel with a very long mainspring for that width and thickness, from what I've seen available. The bridles are standard.

The closest spring that I think would fit on cousins is

1.50 x .105 x 480 x 11.5 Non-Automatic

GR4143

It's a lot shorter than yours but there isn't really anything of that length in that size. If you're worried about the upsize on strength/thickness you could try

1.50 x .10 x 360 x 10 Non-Automatic

GR4125

but that's even shorter. The shorter length shouldn't be too much of a problem, just less reserve. At this stage, I don't think total hours of reserve is your biggest concern.

You might try looking on ebay or other places for NOS springs, you might try with your bestfit number of 611 but you'll want a high letter (length), the highest I could find was 611P, which is 343mm. Not sure what letter 567mm is, X is 495mm, so ZZZ maybe?

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
55 minutes ago, KOwatch said:

Is that the inner diameter of the barrel? That's the number you want. Regardless, it's a very wide barrel with a very long mainspring for that width and thickness, from what I've seen available. The bridles are standard.

The closest spring that I think would fit on cousins is

1.50 x .105 x 480 x 11.5 Non-Automatic

GR4143

It's a lot shorter than yours but there isn't really anything of that length in that size. If you're worried about the upsize on strength/thickness you could try

1.50 x .10 x 360 x 10 Non-Automatic

GR4125

but that's even shorter. The shorter length shouldn't be too much of a problem, just less reserve. At this stage, I don't think total hours of reserve is your biggest concern.

You might try looking on ebay or other places for NOS springs, you might try with your bestfit number of 611 but you'll want a high letter (length), the highest I could find was 611P, which is 343mm. Not sure what letter 567mm is, X is 495mm, so ZZZ maybe?

 

Hi KOwatch,

Thanks for the help.  The internal diameter of the barrel is 15.5mm.    Sorry I am new to watchmaking as a hobbyist - about 6 months or so.    I have never replaced it serviced a barrel.  I guess now is the time.  Hence, learning the ropes.  

Yes, I saw those options on Cousins website.  However,  as you seen thatbrhe length is not long enough but yes it will work.   Secondly, the 0.105 may just rub inside with the top/bottom when the barrel is closed.  I will check the depth of the barrel to see how much free room there is. 

There are few on eBay but the prices are like £20 delivered and the dimensions are not even listed by the seller.   So I don’t think I’ll be buying a NOS (possibly a wrong one) from Spain or Italy.    

I was hoping someone with old stock and/or a donor movement would read this thread and let me know. :).     Let’s see.  Otherwise I will just keep an eye out.   

I wonder, with the correct tools if it is possible to cut a hole/notch and make a bridle as the longer broken mainspring part is 380mm.   Just a thought!

Regards,

Yasser.

Edited by Yasser
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

If I'm reading your measurements correctly,

.10 or .105mm is the thickness of the spring, so this number helps fill up the diameter of the barrel when multiplied by the number of coils of spring. It is the primary variable for the strength of the spring, leading to higher or lower amplitudes of the balance wheel.

The width of the spring (1.5mm), is the same as the inside height of the barrel (as you say: top/bottom, or depth), so if you increased this it could rub on the top/bottom of the barrel, but you don't need to since 1.5mm is available. You could decrease it to 1.4mm and not suffer too much trouble, just some extremely slight extra play in the barrel.

Yes, you can make your own notches and bridles from old springs, there's discussion of the techniques in any classic watch repair manual. However, if your mainspring has broken, it will absolutely break somewhere else, the metal of the spring is already known to be compromised.

 

Edited by KOwatch
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
1 hour ago, KOwatch said:

If I'm reading your measurements correctly,

.10 or .105mm is the thickness of the spring, so this number helps fill up the diameter of the barrel when multiplied by the number of coils of spring. It is the primary variable for the strength of the spring, leading to higher or lower amplitudes of the balance wheel.

The width of the spring (1.5mm), is the same as the inside height of the barrel (as you say: top/bottom, or depth), so if you increased this it could rub on the top/bottom of the barrel, but you don't need to since 1.5mm is available. You could decrease it to 1.4mm and not suffer too much trouble, just some extremely slight extra play in the barrel.

Yes, you can make your own notches and bridles from old springs, there's discussion of the techniques in any classic watch repair manual. However, if your mainspring has broken, it will absolutely break somewhere else, the metal of the spring is already known to be compromised.

 

Thanks.  My apologies aa I wasn’t thinking straight.   So this means that as long as 1.5mm height is not exceeded, the thickness doesn’t really matter that much but the length will impact the reserve.   Hence, need to look for the longest length mainspring.

Regards,

Yasser.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

If you put a 1.4mm or 1.45mm width mainspring in a 1.5mm barrel, it won't make much of a difference. Technically this reduces the cross-sectional area of the spring, so you would compensate with a slightly thicker mainspring to maintain the same strength. There's calculators available online if you want to plug in the numbers.

There's other factors to consider, but from your description and photos we don't have any info on the watch. It looks like a very basic unjeweled movement with a pin-lever escapement? potentially lots of friction there. On the other hand, it looks like an old steel mainspring, so the alloy replacement of the same measurements and thickness might have a different spring coefficient. Lots of variables there. I'd try getting a mainspring that fits and seeing if you can get it to run.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

definitely looks like a Baumgartner! 844 seems to be missing that horseshoe shaped cutout in the main plate though.

@guidovelasquez has a very good implicit point here, that the mainspring you found in the barrel isn't necessarily the correct spring for that movement. The 844 is listed with a very different mainspring than the one you describe,  1.40 x 9.0 x 0.11 x 260mm (works out to 1.40 x .11 x 260 x 8 Non-Automatic GR3696 on Cousins) which is a lot more reasonable in length than what you had (but also thicker and narrower).

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Thanks everyone for the comments and help.     I will source a suitable replacement mainspring and it should be OK.

Regards.

Link to post
Share on other sites


  • Recently Browsing

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Yes it can;  perhaps impulse jewel can't enter the fork horn, if the shock has  knocked a pallet jewel out of alighnment or bent a pivot. Remove the two black screws then the automatic device, loosen the cock screw by couple turns, raise the bridge just enough to pass the impulse jewel over the fork so to get impulse jewel inside the horn, tighten cock screw. It will run, however , might get stuck again if pallet jewels have got misaligned or a pivot has got bent.
    • A little uninspiring.  It does run though...kinda.
    • I decided to find a knew winding pinion for my Vulcain.  I see some wear on the one I have.  I have the spec sheet on the Vulcain 120 and identified the part as #1246.  I searched around and found scotchwatch.com had one.  $45.  I really want it, so I bought it.  Meanwhile, I continued my search and found a part with a different part number (410) on Northern Watch & Clock Supplies in the UK.  It was just a couple of pounds, so I bought it. Later I looked at the invoice from scotchwatch.com and see that the part I bought is 1246 (410), so I think the part has two numbers.  Well, we will see when they arrive.  On part cost 20x the other one.  I am not complaining...as I am glad that someone takes the effort to maintain an inventory for budding watchmakers like myself.  I just think it is interesting. Learning new things every day.
    • Thank you for your introduction and welcome to this friendly forum. A nice looking watch you are wearing. 
    • The hairspring is partially blocked from view by the autowinder but looks to be ok.  The balance swings with a puff in one direction but not the other.  Could it be the position for the impulse jewel and fork?
×
×
  • Create New...