Help identifying pocket watch movement

[BillF]

Hi 

Can anyone help identifying movement and maker, no serial numbers ?

Thanks

Bill

[jdm]

Have you tried the two approaches invariably mentioned in answering this kind of question?

• Look under the balance for markings
• Search "ranfft database" online

[Nucejoe]

Looks related to cortebert. 

[Nucejoe]

Just now, Nucejoe said:

Looks related to cortebert. 

What about the dial?

[BillF]

Hi Jdm

Thanks 

I have stripped watch completely to clean and no marks anywhere :0( 

[BillF]

Hi Nucejoe

Thank you 

Only clue on dial is the jeweller who supplied watch

R J Emerson

Burlington Arcade 

London 

and can't find anything for them :0(

[jdm]

Yes back then as well still now some casers and retailers insisted and maybe paid more to get complety sterile mov.ts. 

Others paid more to have some modifications made to the bridge layout and then apply their markings. 

There were no reliable sources of information outside industry circles and perhaps few precious illustrated parts catalogue.

Buyers were left either buying big names otherwise hanging to the word of the jeweller telling and selling them whatever he wanted.

It was a very competitive and profitable market for a necessary item, the equivalent of a smartphone today. 

 

[watchweasol]

Hi Have a look at the pocketwatch database.

[oldhippy]

Should be able to i d it by the keyless work under the dial. We need to see a photo of the complete keyless work. 

[BillF]

Look at cortebert as suggested earlier looks similar but all the ones i have looked at the balance bridge curves to right where's this kinda curves left ?

Thanks oldhippy, I will post photo of keyless work tomorrow, hopefully will shed some light 

Many thanks 

[Nucejoe]

Russian Malnija amd marathon are said to be copied off of cortebert, but Russian put long reference number on their movements, I wonder if anyone else copied this  cortebert design.

Malnija 3602 came in 16 and 18 jewels out of two factory, which furthure complicates things.

 

 

[JohnR725]

10 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Should be able to i d it by the keyless work under the dial. We need to see a photo of the complete keyless work

We need the diameter of the movement measured on the dial side. Then a picture of the dial side. The only minor catch is the bestfit book which is the standard reference to look for these things I have a suspicion favors watches imported into the US and that one was not. In other words there is no import codes on the watch.

 

[BillF]

Hi 

Have found these marks under dial on movement plate and photo of keyless works

http://jalbum.net/a/2004029

 

[BillF]

Have done bit of googling for marks and fond swiss makers marks

The AM triangle - A. Michel

TR in shield - Ebauches trust

Cant fins anything about these though can anyone help ?

Thanks 

[Nucejoe]

1 hour ago, BillF said:

Have done bit of googling for marks and fond swiss makers marks

The AM triangle - A. Michel

TR in shield - Ebauches trust

Cant fins anything about these though can anyone help ?

Thanks 

Both A-Michel and Adolf shields are brand watchmakers, I wonder if this could be a joint production.

I would focus on A shield .

What do you need the caliber No for, do you need a part? 

 

[JohnR725]

It's still a long shot because of the age but we could use the fingerprint system from the setting parts but we need a size which I don't see? The reason I need a size is because without a size I have to go through each of the sizes looking to see if anything matches. On the other hand how many to look at?

https://blog.esslinger.com/watch-size-ligne-conversion-chart/

The fingerprint system is by size of the movement which is why asked. If this had been a smaller size there would be so many images I wouldn't of wasted my time. Fortunately the setting parts unique enough that I can skim through relatively quickly until I got to 17. You get the pick and choose which one you like the best. If you had the physical bestfit book and I don't know about the PDF I'm assuming they scanned it properly. If you had the physical PDF book than the part would exactly fit on the book. So each one of those should be different you have more than one to choose from. Then it was really helpful you got one of the names right.

[BillF]

Hi 

movement measures 38mm

yes I need a new stem the one that was in watch is broken 

[JohnR725]

4 hours ago, BillF said:

movement measures 38mm

That is close enough to the 17 L . Now is have to look at the images and figure out which one you have?

[Nucejoe]

6 hours ago, BillF said:

Hi 

movement measures 38mm

yes I need a new stem the one that was in watch is broken 

 

Hold onto the broken stem. is it fixable.

[BillF]

Hi

Only have the bottom half of stem so dont know if fixable or how would do it ?

http://jalbum.net/a/2004081

Thanks

[BillF]

Hi John

Have looked at them and there appears to be 4 that are the same unfortunately the file downloads as jpg and not to scale so cannot lay over to see sizes :0(

 

[JohnR725]

59 minutes ago, BillF said:

Have looked at them and there appears to be 4 that are the same unfortunately the file downloads as jpg and not to scale so cannot lay over to see sizes :0(

 

Out of curiosity would you just like to have the stem numbers and not know how I came up with them?

 

 

[BillF]

Hi John

Stem numbers would be great and would be nice to know how you came up with them also as good to learn :0)

Thanks 

Bill

[JohnR725]

31 minutes ago, BillF said:

Stem numbers would be great and would be nice to know how you came up with them also as good to learn :0)

I've never actually tried to print the pages in the book to see if the PDF is properly scaled or not. You have to get the setting roof right and you have to have the right size piece of paper. But still we should build a look at your setting parts look at the images see if anything matches. Then the next step would be to look in the book and see if those numbers come up with a stem number. But I can't do that because I am having a hard time reading which one you thought it was no numbers listed so okay let's have you do that step. I snipped out the sections of the book that have the 17 sized watch you'll notice there is actually several stems so it be helpful to know which movement you think it is.

Then of course still the other way to do this is if we knew the size of your old stem? This is because in addition to the book telling you which stem  for your model number it also lets you look up stems by size. Or if there was a confusion you can look up by size and see which one it is.

[BillF]

Hi John

thank you, the nearest that look like mine are 

480, 500, 530 
 

thanks 

bill