K and D #50 balance staff removal stake punch

[MechanicMike]

Hiya all

Anyone that might own one of these, could you measure and share the dimensions of the encircled area? I have the tool but not the staking punch and I'd like to make myself one. Any help would be appreciated. 

MM

[Poljot]

16 minutes ago, MechanicMike said:

Hiya all

Anyone that might own one of these, could you measure and share the dimensions of the encircled area? I have the tool but not the staking punch and I'd like to make myself one. Any help would be appreciated. 

MM

Dia=4.7

Dia(s)=1.2

L=4.7

 

[MechanicMike]

Aaaand Poljot for the win! Thanks much buddy! You get extra points

[Poljot]

And here is a photo showing the tip. That small opening is about 0.3mm dia and very shallow - just so the Staff Pivot fits in loosely.

[Poljot]

13 minutes ago, MechanicMike said:

Aaaand Poljot for the win! Thanks much buddy! You get extra points

At the end of the month i will convert your points into Airmiles and will fly... wait a minute.. we are under lockdown / curfew .. I will convert them into ca$h!

[MechanicMike]

As long as you split it with me!

[Poljot]

Just now, MechanicMike said:

As long as you split it with me!

Robbery!! Never! ... Well, perhaps 25% commissions? Take it or leave it!

[MechanicMike]

17 minutes ago, Poljot said:

And here is a photo showing the tip. That small opening is about 0.3mm dia and very shallow - just so the Staff Pivot fits in loosely.

Thanks very much that is a critical measurement and pics are bonus. Very important. Noted. 

[MechanicMike]

2 minutes ago, Poljot said:

Robbery!! Never! ... Well, perhaps 25% commissions? Take it or leave it!

During these strange and weird times? 25% a done deal! 

[JohnR725]

A minor wrinkle in this discussion? For which I won't have an answer until I go to work tomorrow perhaps. Do you know this tool comes in two different sizes sort of? It actually comes in more sizes it comes in various heights for the various staking sets. Then the hole diameter that the punch goes into comes in two different sizes. One for smaller watches and a bigger one for pocket watches. Problem is I can't remember if the punch is different sizes or whether they just have one of those?

[jdrichard]

9 hours ago, MechanicMike said:

Hiya all

Anyone that might own one of these, could you measure and share the dimensions of the encircled area? I have the tool but not the staking punch and I'd like to make myself one. Any help would be appreciated. 

MM

I am cutting this for a chap in the US and the ones I have have a hole deep enough to accept the pivot; and two different size holes as well for 18s and 16/12S movement staffs.

[MechanicMike]

1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

A minor wrinkle in this discussion? For which I won't have an answer until I go to work tomorrow perhaps. Do you know this tool comes in two different sizes sort of? It actually comes in more sizes it comes in various heights for the various staking sets. Then the hole diameter that the punch goes into comes in two different sizes. One for smaller watches and a bigger one for pocket watches. Problem is I can't remember if the punch is different sizes or whether they just have one of those?

Yes. 50 and 50B. But I'm finding out that there might be the possibility of 2 different tips to each tool. These are the stakes I was going to turn down.

 

[jdrichard]

11 hours ago, MechanicMike said:

Hiya all

Anyone that might own one of these, could you measure and share the dimensions of the encircled area? I have the tool but not the staking punch and I'd like to make myself one. Any help would be appreciated. 

MM

My measurements

[Poljot]

https://kanddinverto.weebly.com/no-50-balance-staff-remover.html

[Poljot]

Another excellent illustration:

https://d1v6dnm22vfd7d.cloudfront.net/monthly_2016_12/585d52063a3a8_s-l1600(1).jpg.4ddda7819501a940f9722e873c37fce8.jpg

 

[Poljot]

Approved by Mark!!

 

[MechanicMike]

4 hours ago, jdrichard said:

I am cutting this for a chap in the US and the ones I have have a hole deep enough to accept the pivot; and two different size holes as well for 18s and 16/12S movement staffs.

Were you able to turn them down in a lathe or grind them because of material hardness?

[jdrichard]

4 hours ago, MechanicMike said:

Were you able to turn them down in a lathe or grind them because of material hardness?

Will let you know Friday:)  I am hoping so...else I will need to anneal them first

[MechanicMike]

34 minutes ago, jdrichard said:

Will let you know Friday:)  I am hoping so...else I will need to anneal them first

I did a quick file check on my spares. Don't know about your stakes but mine are soft, so I'll be able to machine em in the lathe no problem. 

[jdrichard]

2 hours ago, MechanicMike said:

I did a quick file check on my spares. Don't know about your stakes but mine are soft, so I'll be able to machine em in the lathe no problem. 

That is good news. Thanks 

[nickelsilver]

13 hours ago, MechanicMike said:

I did a quick file check on my spares. Don't know about your stakes but mine are soft, so I'll be able to machine em in the lathe no problem. 

Punches should be hardened at the end that does the work, and soft at the hammer end. I just checked my K&D staff removing punches and they are dead soft on the hammer end, and a little harder at the business end. I was actually surprised it wasn't harder, but they are definitely heat treated. They also measure 4.69mm, which is normal punch diameter (nominal 4.7). The K&D punches should turn fine. My Star punches and anvils have to be annealed to turn them.

 

 

[MechanicMike]

1 hour ago, nickelsilver said:

Punches should be hardened at the end that does the work, and soft at the hammer end. I just checked my K&D staff removing punches and they are dead soft on the hammer end, and a little harder at the business end. I was actually surprised it wasn't harder, but they are definitely heat treated. They also measure 4.69mm, which is normal punch diameter (nominal 4.7). The K&D punches should turn fine. My Star punches and anvils have to be annealed to turn them.

 

 

Carbide will take care of them.

[KarlvonKoln]

I would like to thank @Poljot and @jdrichard for the measurements, pics, and info.  I recently picked up a K&D No. 50 that was complete and in great shape *except* for the stake.  I remembered I had a couple old chipped stakes socked away, so I decided to turn one down a bit on my lathe, and replicate the tip as depicted.  With your help I was able to create an accurate facsimile.  Thanks again, fellows!  

[MechanicMike]

4 hours ago, KarlvonKoln said:

I would like to thank @Poljot and @jdrichard for the measurements, pics, and info.  I recently picked up a K&D No. 50 that was complete and in great shape *except* for the stake.  I remembered I had a couple old chipped stakes socked away, so I decided to turn one down a bit on my lathe, and replicate the tip as depicted.  With your help I was able to create an accurate facsimile.  Thanks again, fellows!  

https://www.daveswatchparts.com/

This is on my list of tool sites I peruse and I see hes got one stake left.  Last week he had 3. Sometimes you can make a really good find at Dave's. Got a pic of your stake? Did you make the 50(1.3mm)? Always up for pics of homemade tooling and the lathe you used. 

[KarlvonKoln]

On 5/31/2021 at 10:43 PM, MechanicMike said:

 Got a pic of your stake? Did you make the 50(1.3mm)? Always up for pics of homemade tooling and the lathe you used. 

I just turned down an old, chipped K&D stake.  I used my digital calipers, and I only have a little hobby lathe, and I had to use a needle file and went slow, stopping to measure rather often.  I used the specs posted above.  I tried the stake out on a junk pocket watch balance (New York Standard,  6s) and it worked just fine.  I like it.