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Rolex 3135 movement -in over my head?


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Hi all. I recently got an IBM 25 year service award Rolex handed down to me from my grandpa. It is a 1989 Datejust 16220 with 3135 movement.

When i got it the dial was spinning in the case when i would wear it and the second hand was off. Using YouTube videos, I got through replacing the dial with no issues. However when it came to the second hand, come to find out part of the second wheel stem was broken off in the hand. So i ordered a new second wheel and used Marks videos on YouTube to attempt that job. That’s how i got here.

But i didn’t take my time and didn’t let the main spring wind down first. I jumped right in and when i took the train wheel bridge off i realized my mistake. At that point the watch started unwinding rapidly and the minute hand hit one of the markers on the dial. Once the dust settled and i put it back together the watch isn’t working correctly. When i try to wind it, the clutch wheel on the main spring barrel turns but so does the main spring barrel which doesn’t allow the spring to wind. When i pull the stem out to hack position, the hands turn but so does the clutch on the main spring barrel as if it was trying to wind the watch. I have had front (date wheel side) and back (main spring barrel side) apart with no idea or visible sign of what is wrong.

Thank you for any guidance you can provide as i am stumped and didn’t feel comfortable continuing to remove parts trying to find out. 

First pic is dial change prior to second wheel replacement. Other 2 pictures show current state. 

119AEC6E-EE65-48C7-871B-2427AAD55377.png

3272BFC6-D444-4325-8900-00E6E619FCC0.jpeg

2406A554-9219-43AE-8C5A-7942ACC38570.jpeg

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One detail is not clear to me. Energy is being transferred to the mainspring barrel; you say it's turning. What's not clear is how far it gets away from the mainspring barrel. The energy that's going

Here it is - couple of photos: viewer discretion is advised  

Maybe not the best choice to learn on, from a financial perspective... Based on what I've read here so far, I am also leaning toward the keyless works as the prime suspect. But, since the rapid r

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1 minute ago, jdm said:

Your sound advice may have come too late, the OP is already all-in trying to fix to his expensive watch by himself, without proper training, experience, and tools. But if  seeking help from the Internet won't do the miracle it might not be too late to bring it to a reputable watchmaker to have back whole and working.

LOL.  Yes, it came too late.  I am all in on this one.  From the post above.  I got the movement working again as it was the sprocket that the pallet fork drives that was misaligned.  Now that that has been corrected the watch can be wound and it runs.

The new problem is when the stem is pulled to position 3, I can't turn it to move the hands for setting the time.  Since I recorded the movement in slo-mo when the watch was running and see all wheels and main spring barrel moving it doesn't seem to be jammed.  But when I try to turn the stem in position 3 something is just not quite right.  

I appreciate the guidance I have gotten so far as that has gotten me 1/2 way home.  I'm hoping someone can help point me in the right direction on this one now.

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Just now, IBM16220 said:

 Now that that has been corrected the watch can be wound and it runs.

Which is good, now to really know how it runs, place it on a timegrapher. That makes is a big difference, especially for an high quality watch and a demanding owner. Good luck.

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6 minutes ago, IBM16220 said:

The new problem is when the stem is pulled to position 3, I can't turn it to move the hands for setting the time.  Since I recorded the movement in slo-mo when the watch was running and see all wheels and main spring barrel moving it doesn't seem to be jammed.  But when I try to turn the stem in position 3 something is just not quite right.  

I appreciate the guidance I have gotten so far as that has gotten me 1/2 way home.  I'm hoping someone can help point me in the right direction on this one now.

I always love the enthusiasm of newbies who pick and choose the guidance they receive. Ignore the negativity embrace the positive don't worry about anything and everything will be fine

I don't suppose you want to elaborate by the phrase just not quite right?

one of the problems in watch repair is to get a proper answer requires proper diagnostics. For me that would mean holding the watch in my hand and looking at. Relying on the text of the person who has no idea what they're looking at isn't entirely helpful. But this is Sunday I need entertainment I am willing to guess. With the lack of a proper description of your term not quite right I am guessing that the setting components probably are quite where there supposed to be. So you're going to have to disassemble watch and get down to the setting components and make sure there where there supposed to be. The easiest way to access those is from the dial side. Then I would give you an image of the Rolex manual but it really sucks it only shows the lubrication requirements it assumes that you actually know where all the components are supposed to go. In any case what usually happens when you remove the stem and after disassembling thing is the clutch wheels the lever things will go out of alignment that's probably what's happened. But that's only a guess based on poor diagnostic skills on your part.

 

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3 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

I always love the enthusiasm of newbies who pick and choose the guidance they receive. Ignore the negativity embrace the positive don't worry about anything and everything will be fine

I don't suppose you want to elaborate by the phrase just not quite right?

one of the problems in watch repair is to get a proper answer requires proper diagnostics. For me that would mean holding the watch in my hand and looking at. Relying on the text of the person who has no idea what they're looking at isn't entirely helpful. But this is Sunday I need entertainment I am willing to guess. With the lack of a proper description of your term not quite right I am guessing that the setting components probably are quite where there supposed to be. So you're going to have to disassemble watch and get down to the setting components and make sure there where there supposed to be. The easiest way to access those is from the dial side. Then I would give you an image of the Rolex manual but it really sucks it only shows the lubrication requirements it assumes that you actually know where all the components are supposed to go. In any case what usually happens when you remove the stem and after disassembling thing is the clutch wheels the lever things will go out of alignment that's probably what's happened. But that's only a guess based on poor diagnostic skills on your part.

 

Thanks for getting back to me.  Last night in my attempt at finding why the watch wasn't working I took the date wheel off and then the front plate.  I thought I had it back together correctly but there could easily be something that is out of alignment in there.

By just not right I mean when I go to turn the stem in position 3 to try to set the time the stem doesn't turn but I can see the minute and hour wheels on the back side trying to move.  So..."it's close but just not right".  I have been trying to figure out all that is supposed to move when the stem is pulled to position 3 to find what is jammed up but I am missing something.  I will rewatch Mark's videos on youtube for reassembly of that section, which in addition to this forum, have been my lifeline for not screwing up too bad.

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1 hour ago, IBM16220 said:

Despite the "F screws" I was able to check the pallet fork and it was in good shape.  it ended up being the sprocket that the pallet fork drives which works with the second wheel that was not in position.  I am not able to wind the watch and it runs.  The problem now is that when the stem is pulled out to position 3 to set the time the crown will not spin.  It is jammed up somewhere which is different than before as it spun freely.  Any thoughts on this one?

It's time to either DIY and take watch apart, or give it to a trusted watch repair guy / girl. Every part needs to be visually inspected. Any broken, bent pivots, teeth, etc, etc have to be replaced / repaired.

Edited by Poljot
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1 hour ago, IBM16220 said:

Despite the "F screws" I was able to check the pallet fork and it was in good shape.  it ended up being the sprocket that the pallet fork drives which works with the second wheel that was not in position.  I am not able to wind the watch and it runs.  The problem now is that when the stem is pulled out to position 3 to set the time the crown will not spin.  It is jammed up somewhere which is different than before as it spun freely.  Any thoughts on this one?

Those Fine Screws shall not be over-torqued or you will have another problem. Four last 3135s & 2135 I repaired, which were previously serviced by Rolex several years ago, had various broken screws inside. 1/2 of a case screw head had landed on the balance wheel making the watch... less accurate and unpredictable? I am sure a timegrapher would detect a broken screw head on the hairspring. ?

So, i suppose that Rolex was using their genuine Rolex screws, right? Well, they broke and were replaced with generic à la rolex screws purchased from Cousins under 10GBP each.

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22 minutes ago, Poljot said:

Those Fine Screws shall not be over-torqued or you will have another problem. Four last 3135s & 2135 I repaired, which were previously serviced by Rolex several years ago, had various broken screws inside. 1/2 of a case screw head had landed on the balance wheel making the watch... less accurate and unpredictable? I am sure a timegrapher would detect a broken screw head on the hairspring. ?

So, i suppose that Rolex was using their genuine Rolex screws, right? Well, they broke and were replaced with generic à la rolex screws purchased from Cousins under 10GBP each.

Good point.  Luckily I have had them apart and back together without breaking any screws.  Your recommendation on the pallet fork was very helpful and got me to the right spot even though it wasn't the fork.  Thank you.  Now I just need to figure out what is binding up keeping the stem/crown from turning when trying to set the time.

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10 minutes ago, IBM16220 said:

Good point.  Luckily I have had them apart and back together without breaking any screws.  Your recommendation on the pallet fork was very helpful and got me to the right spot even though it wasn't the fork.  Thank you.  Now I just need to figure out what is binding up keeping the stem/crown from turning when trying to set the time.

Glad to help.

You have to understand that "remote assistance with blind troubleshooting" is not easy. I just gave you some food for thoughts about wheel train & escapement. Without understanding the basic concept, you would be wasting your time on guessing (mostly incorrectly) on what should be your next troubleshooting step. But if you have a good understanding how things work, your guess will be an educated one. Makes your life easier and less stressful :-).

Cheers

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1 hour ago, Poljot said:

Those Fine Screws shall not be over-torqued or you will have another problem. Four last 3135s & 2135 I repaired, which were previously serviced by Rolex several years ago, had various broken screws inside.

Was this the Rolex service center in Geneva or some other one?The reason I asked quality control must've really dropped since when I visited a very long time ago? Many years ago I Visited the service center and found out that they use powered screwdrivers. standard operating procedure was to replace all of the screws in the watch. This was to prevent the heads from breaking off. But maybe they ran out of screws or maybe it wasn't the Geneva service center. In any case because they do use powered screwdrivers you do want to be careful because there is the likelihood that the heads can break.

54 minutes ago, IBM16220 said:

Now I just need to figure out what is binding up keeping the stem/crown from turning when trying to set the time.

Then two separate links to the same site sort of. It doesn't look like he's recycling pictures both flanks or servicing the same watch and he has pictures you might find them helpful perhaps.

 

https://watchguy.co.uk/service-rolex-oyster-perpetual-datejust-16233-calibre-3135/

https://watchguy.co.uk/service-rolex-oyster-perpetual-datejust-16200-calibre-3135/

 

 

 

 

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After hours of troubleshooting front and back of the movement to figure out why the stem would not turn when pulled out to position 3 (the position to stop the movement and set the time) I have no idea.  I see that the minute sprocket and the hour sprocket (the parts that the hands mount to when installed) are supposed to turn when the stem is pulled out to position 3.  The stem mechanism (little sprockets that engage with minute sprocket) works but I'm not sure what is supposed to disengage the minute sprocket from the main spring barrel on the back side of the watch.  

Without that disengaging from the main spring barrel the whole mechanism gets stopped from turning by the pallet fork.

Can someone explain what is supposed to happen so that the minute and hour hands will spin freely when the stem is pulled to position 3?  Then I can chase down what is supposed to be happening that isn't happening.  Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

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11 minutes ago, IBM16220 said:

Can someone explain what is supposed to happen so that the minute and hour hands will spin freely when the stem is pulled to position 3?  Then I can chase down what is supposed to be happening that isn't happening.  Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

Maybe it would be better if you gave us pictures so we could diagnose for you. Otherwise we can make guesses wild speculations conspiracies or something else if you like?

 

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8 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

Maybe it would be better if you gave us pictures so we could diagnose for you. Otherwise we can make guesses wild speculations conspiracies or something else if you like?

 

Using the pictures that you provided in the link above since I didn't have exactly the right pictures during my disassembly I'll try to explain it.  In the picture of the front of the watch I circled the little gears that work together when the stem is pulled to position 3.  They all line up to turn the minute sprocket (silver shaft in middle of watch).

I am using the picture of the back of the watch to show that when the balance and pallet fork are removed and the stem is pulled to position 3 everything turns and nothing is binding up.  But when I install the balance and pallet fork and try to turn the stem in position 3 the stem will not turn as the pallet fork is holding the escape wheel from moving thus keeping the whole mechanism that once moved from moving.

When  the stem is pulled to position 3 I assume that only the minute hand and hour hand should move and the second hand will stay stationary.  Therefore, when the stem is pulled into position 3 something should be disengaging the train wheels from the minute sprocket (the post the minute hand mounts to on the front circled) and the hands should spin independently from the train wheels and the main spring barrel.  But that isn't happening.

 

Back w balance rem circ.jpg

Front min sprok circ.jpg

Edited by IBM16220
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5 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

The piece in the center of the dial side, where you fit the minute hand, is the canon pinion. This has a light friction fit on the corresponding gear in the gear train, it snaps onto that gear's extended arbor. When you set the hands it slips on that arbor; when the watch is running the arbor drives the canon pinion and thus the minute wheel and then the hour wheel and date mechanism. If the friction is too light it might slip when driving the date mechanism- if it's too heavy you might damage parts in the setting mechanism. But nothing "disengages" or engages except for the sliding pinion, when you pull the stem. It is under the plate just above the top red circle in the second picture.

So the way I read this is the cannon pinion should spin freely when the stem is pulled as it's a light friction fit on the arbor attached to the gear below it.  So when the watch is running it will spin with the gear that is driven by the movement and when the stem is pulled it should spin freely on the arbor while the whole train wheel mechanism stays locked by the pallet fork.

The cannon pinion definitely does not spin freely when the stem is pulled to position 3.  I tried to turn it with a pair of tweezers last night and it wouldn't budge.  If I take the train wheel mechanism off again I will have access to the minute wheel below all of that by removing the bridge.  Do you think that is the path I should take?  It sounds like maybe the wheel jammed up on the bottom of the cannon pinion where it should have a light friction fit.  In the thread, I explained that I forgot to let the main spring down and the spring released uncontrolled and the minute hand hit one of the indexes on the dial.  In my head that would cause something to bind up...

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It doesn't turn freely, there is some resistance. A definitely noticeable resistance, but not super hard. Could you set the hands before you took it apart? Judging from the earlier photos whoever did its last service wasn't very competent, if they cleaned it assembled they may have left out lubricating the canon pinion, and if its run dry is can seize up.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

It doesn't turn freely, there is some resistance. A definitely noticeable resistance, but not super hard. Could you set the hands before you took it apart? Judging from the earlier photos whoever did its last service wasn't very competent, if they cleaned it assembled they may have left out lubricating the canon pinion, and if its run dry is can seize up.

 

 

Yeah, the prior service is what I believe got me into this situation as they broke the dial pins that keep it from turning and snapped the second wheel shaft off in the second hand.  So I did some research and attempted the job myself.

Yes, I could turn the hands before I took it apart.  So before I took it apart the watch would wind with the stem in position 1 and the hands would turn with the stem in position 3 so it wasn't seized up before I started work on it.  Then I took it apart, didn't let the main spring down, removed one of the train wheels and the spring unwound uncontrolled spinning the hands which slammed into one of the indexes on the dial.

Now, I've changed out the second wheel that was broken so a new second hand can be attached and I believe I have everything installed correctly but the cannon pinion wont spin when the stem is in position 3 but the whole canon pinion/minute sprocket/arbor assembly spins when the movement is running.

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6 minutes ago, IBM16220 said:

Yeah, the prior service is what I believe got me into this situation as they broke the dial pins that keep it from turning and snapped the second wheel shaft off in the second hand.  So I did some research and attempted the job myself.

Yes, I could turn the hands before I took it apart.  So before I took it apart the watch would wind with the stem in position 1 and the hands would turn with the stem in position 3 so it wasn't seized up before I started work on it.  Then I took it apart, didn't let the main spring down, removed one of the train wheels and the spring unwound uncontrolled spinning the hands which slammed into one of the indexes on the dial.

Now, I've changed out the second wheel that was broken so a new second hand can be attached and I believe I have everything installed correctly but the cannon pinion wont spin when the stem is in position 3 but the whole canon pinion/minute sprocket/arbor assembly spins when the movement is running.

Here are a couple pictures of the bridge and sprocket (minute pinion), circled in red, that I am referring to that could be jammed.  I am concerned though that once I get access to it I wont be able to do anything to separate it from the cannon pinion as in the video a special tool was needed to pull the cannon pinion out of the watch.  But from thinking about how you explained the mechanism works this is what is not allowing the cannon pinion from spinning freely when the stem is in position 3.

minute pinion bridge.jpg

minute sprocket.jpg

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In thinking about it a little more, taking your guidance (nickelsilver) and re-watching the videos it seems I need to free up the cannon pinion (circled in red) that is installed over the arbor (circled in yellow and red) if that is supposed to slip on the arbor when the stem is in position 3 allowing the hands to move.  Does that make sense and if so, any recommendations on freeing it up?

cannon pinion.jpg

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I was under the impression that it was running somewhat during the interstitial assembly attempt. If that's the case, I don't think the cannon pinion can be seized. It's hard to tell without it in front of me, but my money is on something in the keyless works. What's the situation re: stem removal on a 3135? What are the odds the sliding pinion or some other part of the keyless works got goofed up a bit? Seized canon pinions aren't all that common (in these circumstances), but wonky keyless works are a dime a dozen. Horses for zebras. Fortunately, keyless works, while one of the most variable features across movements, is one of the easier systems to work with as a novice (at least in my opinion). 

 

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Maybe not the best choice to learn on, from a financial perspective...

Based on what I've read here so far, I am also leaning toward the keyless works as the prime suspect. But, since the rapid run-down of the mainspring, I'd also be very suspect of the pivots on the escape wheel and pallet fork; as well as ensuring the escape wheel is planar (flat) after that explosion. It was suggested the watch be fully torn-down and ALL parts be carefully inspected, and I fully endorse that. It's great you want to do this "yourself", but at the end of the day, it's STILL going to have to go to someone with the knowledge and experience (not to mention proper lubricants) to service it correctly.

That said, what you are describing could be cannon pinion issues (how many hours did it run successfully?), or it is the keyless works. Based on the hack job that was done to this poor watch (broken dial feet?!? Really??!?), I suspect the keyless was improperly lubricated, if at all...

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1 hour ago, IBM16220 said:

spinning freely when the stem is in position 3

I really don't like the term spinning freely as that would indicate a problem. The canon pinion has to have friction on whatever it's attached to. Then pay attention to the posting above By spectre6000.  The problem is probably not the Canon pinyin itself it's somewhere in between.

Removing or disassembling a watch under power as you found out is not good. All that energy released and went where?

2 hours ago, IBM16220 said:

Here are a couple pictures of the bridge and sprocket (minute pinion), circled in red, that I am referring to that could be jammed.  I am concerned though that once I get access to it I wont be able to do anything to separate it from the cannon pinion as in the video a special tool was needed to pull the cannon pinion out of the watch.  But from thinking about how you explained the mechanism works this is what is not allowing the cannon pinion from spinning freely when the stem is in position 3.

The problem with this section of the watch is in order to get here basically the entire watch has to be disassembled.

2 hours ago, IBM16220 said:

Yeah, the prior service is what I believe got me into this situation as they broke the dial pins that keep it from turning and snapped the second wheel shaft off in the second hand.  So I did some research and attempted the job myself.

you took your watch to these people to have them butcher the watch did you complain about it afterwards? Most people who pay usually a lot of money to get the Rolex serviced expected to be perfect not destroyed seems more like this would be a warranty issue except of course they're incompetent which would be a problem. Do these people advertise that they service Rolex watches?

14 minutes ago, Tudor said:

Maybe not the best choice to learn on, from a financial perspective...

I'm going to disagree? Often times in watch repair you need a dramatic lesson to grasp that watch repair isn't really this easy. It takes a lot of time and practice learning to successfully to service a watch. For some people they need to start with a Rolex and destroy it to grasp that. Others need to start with a prized family watch and destroy it. Having the entire family criticize you every time you meet them might actually sink in perhaps.

27 minutes ago, Tudor said:

Based on what I've read here so far, I am also leaning toward the keyless works as the prime suspect. But, since the rapid run-down of the mainspring, I'd also be very suspect of the pivots on the escape wheel and pallet fork; as well as ensuring the escape wheel is planar (flat) after that explosion. It was suggested the watch be fully torn-down and ALL parts be carefully inspected, and I fully endorse that. It's great you want to do this "yourself", but at the end of the day, it's STILL going to have to go to someone with the knowledge and experience (not to mention proper lubricants) to service it correctly.

That said, what you are describing could be cannon pinion issues (how many hours did it run successfully?), or it is the keyless works. Based on the hack job that was done to this poor watch (broken dial feet?!? Really??!?), I suspect the keyless was improperly lubricated, if at all...

Really nice when I can quote other people that have my thoughts.

Now we come to the it should be the end but? Where do you want to go with this? Normally people on this group learning watch repair one a learn all of watch repair of unlike just how you can fix my Rolex quickly when this Rolex was butchered before and need to complete servicing. So even if we can help you find the problem and you fix it this watch still need to complete servicing. That's because it's now very dirty from you taken apart and putting it back together and the lubrication has been hopelessly destroyed by taking it apart and putting it back together. Plus whoever serviced it before was incompetent so that alone means the watch needs to be serviced again.

Then the cost of sending a Rolex anywhere to get it serviced is expensive because it's expensive watch the components are expensive. But if it's had prior to DIY servicing the cost will go up considerably.

Then where do we want to go if you want to continue to fix your watch? He can't really service the watch and you find a problem anyway.

There's really no good way to do this and yes we really need the pictures of your watch.someone else's watch because their watches running yours is not. We can't trust your eyes and diagnostic skills as you're a newbie.

But in the absence of anything up like to do why did she put the balance wheel and pallet fork back in. Mina to verify that the watch runs and more than a few minutes would be ideal. Make sure the winding works don't worry about the setting.

I suspect the problem is on the dial side but it's anything and everything is possible with this watch

 

 

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I finally got it working as it "should" and back together.  It ended up being two different things both me installing tiny pieces incorrectly and just a little out of sync.  The first issue was the escape wheel/pallet fork that was misaligned and  not installed properly which allowed the minute hand, hour hand, main spring barrel and 3 train wheels less the escape wheel to turn when trying to wind the watch and also when the stem was at position 3 for setting the time. 

Thanks to Poljot for pointing me in the direction of the pallet fork/escape wheel interaction.

Once that was corrected, the watch would wind and run but when the stem was in position 3 for setting the time, the cannon pinion on the minute arbor would not turn.  After hours of videos, screen shots and guidance by Nickelsilver (Thank you!) this morning I was able to understand how the mechanism was supposed to work which led me to finding that the little sprocket that connects the minute wheel to the auto date change wheel was just a little off center causing the wheels to bind up.

Next step is ordering a replacement second hand since the second hand I have has the tip of the second wheel broken off inside it.  In addition, I am interested in how well the watch runs and keeps time.  Before replacing the dial and second wheel the watch ran -2 sec/day.  Probably isn't going to run that good after the work that was just performed so it will def need a service.

Thanks again to everyone who contributed and gave me the confidence to continue on.  Here are some final wrap up pics.

Date wheel.jpg

Train wheel.jpg

rotor install.jpg

Dial install.jpg

Hands and in case.jpg

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If the tip of the seconds hand pinion broke off inside the original seconds hand, a new hand will not help completely- you will need to replace that seconds hand pinion as well, so the new hand has something to attach to.

What did you end up doing to secure the dial?

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2 minutes ago, Tudor said:

If the tip of the seconds hand pinion broke off inside the original seconds hand, a new hand will not help completely- you will need to replace that seconds hand pinion as well, so the new hand has something to attach to.

What did you end up doing to secure the dial?

Thanks for the input. The second hand pinion was the reason for this whole saga. I bought a new second wheel where the pinion is attached. I then decided after watching YouTube videos i was ready to replace it myself. ?
 

For the dial i ended up buying a pre owned one that had the feet and just replaced the dial. 

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    • Material houses like cousins, eslinger, ofrei, julesborel do carry watch parts, though I doubt you can find a sign crown for this. Familiarize with  Dr ranfft's very popular database for good general information on most calibers, just google ETA 1260 ranfft. Good luck
    • You can use any crown of your liking and that matches the pendant tube. Since you haven't posted pictures of the case one can't tell how it should like.  Two piece stems are easily available, even on Ebay.    As answered sometime. In the past service manuals did not exist because the watchmaker was supposed to known his trade well enough.  Parts lists were issued to ease identification and ordering, very many including for the one you have can be downloaded from Cousins UK. 
    • Hello, I am new to watch repair and am looking for some guidance. After taking an online course and practicing on a knockoff ETA 6497 I've started looking at one of my Ebay finds. Currently I'm working on a Wyler Incaflex 1023H. I think it's from the 1950's after popping of the armored crystal I learned that it's an ETA 1260 movement inside. I am missing the crown and there is water damage and rust on the stem and movement body at the stem. That said the rest of the movement looks great and when I persuaded it to wind the movement fired right up! I think I've deciphered an old GS watch crystal cross reference chart properly and came up with either a 26.0mm ATC GS part # PA368 or a 26.06mm ATC GS part # PA368-10. What I haven't been able to find is much information on the missing crown and a replacement stem. the case is a single piece and the movement comes out through the front. Does anyone have experience with Wyler and ETA 1260 movements? Any advice on how to find the correct crown and stem? Is there a service manual available? Thank you.  
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