reducing jewel holes

[gary17]

I 

 have started replacing jewels and was talking to someone who said push jewel out and if the replacement jewel is slightly loose you can tighten the hole with a oval headed (convex) punch. 

How big should the punch be to close the hole slightly and do you start with a large punch moving down to a smaller punch. Similar to riveting a balance wheel to the balance staff? 

Or am i totally mistaking something?

Cheers

Gary

[jdrichard]

So you can close the hole with a punch, but you are effectively moving material so need to be very careful not to crack th plate. I have reduced the hole size on a roller table but not on a plate. It is way better to find the right jewel. Is this a watch or pocket watch. If for some reason you decide to reduce the hole size, pick a round punch that is 5% bigger than the hole and tap often and lightly. And keep testing the hole so you don’t close it too much. My recommendation is to get the right jewel. If this is a watch, and you have a Jeweling tool, you could ream the hole slightly bigger and press in a friction fit jewel as well.

[jdrichard]

1 minute ago, jdrichard said:

So you can close the hole with a punch, but you are effectively moving material so need to be very careful not to crack th plate. I have reduced the hole size on a roller table but not on a plate. It is way better to find the right jewel. Is this a watch or pocket watch. If for some reason you decide to reduce the hole size, pick a round punch that is 5% bigger than the hole and tap often and lightly. And keep testing the hole so you don’t close it too much. My recommendation is to get the right jewel. If this is a watch, and you have a Jeweling tool, you could ream the hole slightly bigger and press in a friction fit jewel as well.

Jewel Replacement - Waltham Full Plate Pocket Watch https://youtu.be/WxQK6CWuznc

[JohnR725]

Depending upon which jewel tool you have it might already have what you need. I snipped something out of the Catalog.

 

[gary17]

Hi

Thanks John they are the tools I have. I am just starting on what I think is the tough stuff. Trying to change balance staffs and changing broken jewels and trying to understand the witch timing results. I can get em going but not accurate and correct. I could do with a list of what makes a watch to run fast. So fast it cannot be fixed with balance regulator. If you know a list of what I check after doing the regulator let me no. . So I will probably be a fixture in the questions. Section. 

If yer don't ask yer don't learn. 

Any tips as you no are appreciated. 

[saswatch88]

3 hours ago, gary17 said:

Hi

Thanks John they are the tools I have. I am just starting on what I think is the tough stuff. Trying to change balance staffs and changing broken jewels and trying to understand the witch timing results. I can get em going but not accurate and correct. I could do with a list of what makes a watch to run fast. So fast it cannot be fixed with balance regulator. If you know a list of what I check after doing the regulator let me no. . So I will probably be a fixture in the questions. Section. 

If yer don't ask yer don't learn. 

Any tips as you no are appreciated. 

watch running fast.....

1. What is the amplitude?

2. demagnetize movement and tools

3. Are hairspring coils sticking? If so how did you clean the balance assembly?

4. Mainspring replacement? If so what strength did you use. There air about 4-6 different strengths for each caliber waltham movement which will vary based on jewel count.

5. Oiling the escapement, what oil did you use and how did you apply it. Did you get any on the hairspring, or on the top of the pallet jewels?

 

[JohnR725]

Simplistic of above is

hairspring anything that changes the hairspring characteristics. In other words they hairspring is attached to the balance wheel at the collet and the watch at the stud. There is the regulator pins and that's it. They hairspring can't be stuck together with magnetism or oil sticking the coils together. Or touching anything else like the balance arm sets a really popular place it likes to go touching. Sometimes that's really hard to see. Touching the balance bridge. Anything that makes that hairspring appear to be shorter it will run superfast.

The problem with restaffing is the balance wheel comes apart and has to go back together perfectly and it's really easy with the hairspring to have bad things happen. Plus when you put things back together they have to be in the right place in other words watch has to be in beat that will cause an issue.

Things that change the balance wheel like restaffing if you're not careful. If it's a bimetallic balance wheel it's really easy to squeeze it the arms get bent in and it runs insanely fast normally when you restaffing you're supposed to make sure the balance wheel is running flat and true so this shouldn't occur usually occurs later on when people are doing something with the balance wheel will squeeze the arms.

The problem with watch repair is it's a lifetime learning experience. It's hard to have simple quick rules that explain everything. Troubleshooting issues with the balance wheel doesn't matter who you are can be quite a challenge. Earlier in the week I had a 18 size Elgin pocket watch behaving strange for timekeeping couldn't quite figure out the problem. Then I noticed that when I put the hairspring back on it was up just a hair and that was enough to cause an issue. But it took me quite a bit of time to figure out what that problem was I Leaning towards the pivot problem because that's what it appeared to be. This is where there can be so many issues when you Replace the balance staff.

[saswatch88]

John........and that us why I dread balance work, i try to always find a suitable replacement but i know i shouldnt do that because i will never learn. The process is crazy, removing roller, staff, installing setting impulse jewel in beat, etc etc....at least most of the waltham/elgins are friction fit, the riveted balances i dont even bother doing since i dont have a lathe and the platax tool doesnt really help to not distort the wheel. Good thing that most movements including the later elgin 5xx grades with riveted balances would sell a complete balance, and they are quite easy to come by. Some minor hairspring work but at least you dont have to deal with the staff.

Edited January 8, 2021 by saswatch88