DIY - Eterna Cal 965. Main Spring Replacement.

[SLim]

Hello all,

RE: DIY Main Spring Replacement.

The Eterna watch, pictures attached, I believe has a cal 965 movement. 

I have used it for many years, then the main spring went. 

So I replaced it, long story short, it took a long time just to do that.

Sadly, regardless of crown position, the hands turn simultaneously and the main spring will not wind.

Any ideas welcome.

Many thanks for reading this and for any forth coming advice.

Steve

[rogart63]

Looks like the click is not sitting as it should. You can see it thru the oval hole next to the mainspring barrel. One thing is to check the lid of the barrel. Is it closed?

Edited January 3, 2021 by rogart63

[watchweasol]

Hi  I think rogart63 is right it looks as if the click is stuck between the bridge and the barrel, so its a case of removing the bridge checking the barrel and re fitting.

I have attached the tech sheet but not very clear.

7250_Eterna 965(S) - 1020(S).pdf

[Nucejoe]

2 hours ago, SLim said:

Sadly, regardless of crown position, the hands turn simultaneously and the main spring will not wind.

Faulty set mech.

I pop hands and dial out, if you couldn't spot the fault, show us a close up of set mech as you find it.

Click issue is a seperate one to check.

[SLim]

Hi,

Thanks for your inputs.

I've checked the barrel, turning the arbor with tweezers presents a nice resistance and the case lid is perfectly fitted - I think the barrel is good.

What is the set mech?

Do these pictures help any further?

[SLim]

Update.

I've put everything back and this is how it now functions.

With the crown in: 

turning the crown anti-clockwise, I can feel the clicker,

turning the crown clockwise, all the hands move forwards, simultaneously.

With the crown out:

and turning it anti-clockwise, the hands move forwards simultaneously,

turning clockwise all hands move simultaneously backwards.

Any thoughts would be most welcome.

Thanks.

Steve 

[Poljot]

34 minutes ago, SLim said:

Hi,

Thanks for your inputs.

I've checked the barrel, turning the arbor with tweezers presents a nice resistance and the case lid is perfectly fitted - I think the barrel is good.

What is the set mech?

Do these pictures help any further?

It's the opposite side (under the dial) that you need to open and check.

I never put the dial on before verifying that I am able to wind the watch, move "hands", adjust calendar, etc. Also check clearance between Hands.

https://eterna-fanatic.com/calibre-965-1020/

Edited January 3, 2021 by Poljot

[SLim]

Hi,

Thanks for your advice. 

I've not completely opened the other side.

I remember having to loosen it when taking out the barrel for the first time.

I suspect something must have moved from its original position at that time, perhaps.

I will endeavour to open it later in the week and post a picture of what it looks like.

Thanks again.

Many Thanks.

 

[SLim]

Hello all,

I can now see that the escape wheel has been dislodged from the jewel housed in the bridge.

In an effort to fix this I have loosened the bridge and am attempting to align the escape wheel pinion to the jewel, unsuccessfully so far.

Any advice as to successfully re-instating the escape wheel would be most welcome.

Is it possible to do this without removing the bridge? Only, I cannot imagine how difficult it would be to put the bridge back on. As there are 4 wheels in total to co-ordinate.

Thanks in advance for any advice on this.

 

 

[Nucejoe]

1 hour ago, SLim said:

 escape wheel has been dislodged from the jewel housed in the bridge.

attempting to align the escape wheel pinion to the jewel

Is it possible to do this without removing the 

Yes you can slide the pivots in jewel holes without removing the bridge, however,there must be a reason why escape arbour pivot has got out of the jewel hole, you may have a broken pivot or jewels have moved, are there end stone on jewels there?  Best to check all parts involved under good magnification.

Make a habbit of checking  shakes on all arbours before disassemble/ assemble. 

Regs

 

 

[SLim]

Hi,

Thanks for your views.

It is possible that when I loosened the bridge to get the mainspring barrel out and back in, that the escape wheel came out of the jewel.

It is possible that when tightening the bridge the escape pivot has broken. Or that it pushed out the other jewel below. ( I assume that there is a top and bottom jewel for the escape wheel?).

Is there normally a bottom jewel to go with the top jewel?

I suppose if there is a jewel on the bottom that may have been dislodged?

When you ask,  'are there end stone on jewels there?' are you asking whether there is a jewel for each end of the escape wheel? 

 

Thanks again Nicejoe. Much appreciated.

[JohnR725]

On 1/5/2021 at 10:57 AM, SLim said:

've not completely opened the other side.

Just as a reminder from reading your description a quick fix of changing a mainspring will not solve the problem of when was the last time this watch was serviced? In other words of it hasn't been serviced like forever a new mainspring is going to be problematic as to getting the watch to properly run.

3 hours ago, SLim said:

I can now see that the escape wheel has been dislodged from the jewel housed in the bridge.

In an effort to fix this I have loosened the bridge and am attempting to align the escape wheel pinion to the jewel, unsuccessfully so far.

Any advice as to successfully re-instating the escape wheel would be most welcome.

Is it possible to do this without removing the bridge? Only, I cannot imagine how difficult it would be to put the bridge back on. As there are 4 wheels in total to co-ordinate.

 

If you are doing a quick fix of changing the mainspring there should have been zero reason to loosen the bridge over the train wheels. As soon as you loosen the bridge the pivots come out of the jewels and disaster will happen if you're not really careful.

 

2 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Yes you can slide the pivots in jewel holes without removing the bridge, however,there must be a reason why escape arbour pivot has got out of the jewel hole, you may have a broken pivot or jewels have moved, are there end stone on jewels there?  Best to check all parts involved under good magnification.

The above quote is really interesting? You cannot move a wheel if it's pivot is still in the jewel the bridge has to be lifted up high enough to give you clearance.

1 hour ago, SLim said:

It is possible that when I loosened the bridge to get the mainspring barrel out and back in, that the escape wheel came out of the jewel.

Normally you shouldn't have had two of remove the bridge over the wheels. As soon as you loosen the screws they give is the possibility of as the wheels to move around and come out of the jewels if you're lucky. If you're unlucky doing this you'll break a pivot.

Attempting to put a bridge back on without proper site of the pivots in the holes etc. will probably break a pivot. Ideally you should remove the balance wheel and the pallet fork for proper clearance and to verify that there are indeed where there supposed to be. You also want to be really careful when you're tightening the screws up not the force anything otherwise conceivably you could knock the jewels out of place.

I think rapidly of reached that point of time where a quick fix isn't what you should be doing you're going to have to do more disassembly because trying to do quick fixes without proper disassembly usually leads to disaster and very likely if you break the pivot a new escape wheel plus whatever else gets damaged in the process.

 

 

[Nucejoe]

1 minute ago, JohnR725 said:

The above quote is really interesting? You cannot move a wheel if it's pivot is still in the jewel the bridge has to be lifted up high enough to give you clearance.

OP had loosened bridge screws enough to lift the bridge and slide the pivot in.

1 hour ago, SLim said:

When you ask,  'are there end stone on jewels there?' are you asking whether there is a jewel for each end of the escape wheel.

Yes they commonly are called end stones. usually set in a spring plate which is screwed on top of jewels. a job of end stones is to bound escape arbour end play=ens shake.

All other question you set forth are likely seario, escape arbour dislodging however little you raised the bridge to get the barrel out, or perhaps escape pivot getting damaged when you pressed the bridge home.

 Taking it apart to check everything NOW is your surest option.

Good luck.

 

[Nucejoe]

On 1/3/2021 at 5:44 PM, SLim said:

What is the set mech?

Anothe name for the keyless. 

[JohnR725]

21 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

OP had loosened bridge screws enough to lift the bridge and slide the pivot in.

Yes theoretically your correct but reread everything the original poster has told us. This is not a skilled individual and we're talking about the escape wheel. How many of us could lift up the bridge put the escape wheel in place with the entire watch still there? Also getting the escape wheel in place without it being either on top of the pallet fork stones under the stones or breaking the pallet fork. Definitely not impossible to do just extremely unlikely in this particular situation..

 

22 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

Taking it apart to check everything NOW is your surest option.

Good luck.

This is now definitely the best course of action

[Nucejoe]

1 hour ago, Nucejoe said:

Taking it apart to check everything NOW is your surest option.

Let me rephrase this.

Sliding pivots in the jewel hole is how I would go about it.

Obviously all parts involved best be inspected NOW, before you fully assemble the movement.

Regs 

 

[SLim]

Hello JohnR725,

My quick fix, is something I have regretted starting a long time ago now. 

It seems as though each time I try to fix something I create a problem.

If I were to continue with my quick fix I would be inclined to 'remove the balance wheel and the pallet fork for proper clearance', as there is so little space available.

But as you say and I totally agree, I am not skilled.  

It might be easier if I locate someone in London or the UK to fully service and fix my mistake/s.

One good thing is that the escape wheel does still have the pivot for the top jewel. I am unable to see the bottom pivot but, maybe, if I, 'remove the balance wheel and the pallet fork for proper clearance'....

Thanks guys for sharing your knowledge and experience it has helped me a lot.  

[JohnR725]

There are several ways to learn watch repair. There is studying getting a practice movements practicing until you feel confident or more confident and then starting to work on things. Or there is the painful way which is all too common. That is you assume watch repair is easy and by the way you're not the first there's lots of people on this group that start this way.

So the good of this exercise is that you regretted doing this. You've learned something starting on a little tiny watch that you value wasn't the best approach.

7 hours ago, SLim said:

It might be easier if I locate someone in London or the UK to fully service and fix my mistake/s.

Now that you're grasping the problems with watch repair you have two approaches to the current problem. The fastest way would be to fall your own suggestion give the watch to somebody else. The other would be to set it aside. You need time to get up to speed if you look at the top of the website under resources there is a watch repair class you can take. Then continue your lessons on learning watch repair at some point in time you come back to this watch. Or you could do both get your watch fixed so it's out of the way and not bothering you and continue your lessons on becoming better at watch repair both acceptable.

 

 

[VWatchie]

49 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

Or there is the painful way which is all too common. That is you assume watch repair is easy and by the way you're not the first there's lots of people on this group that start this way.

It’s interesting to see how the human mind sees no or little complexity in the fields it has no knowledge. Perhaps a good thing or we would be too intimidated to start any new endeavors.

[SLim]

On 4/7/2021 at 9:17 PM, JohnR725 said:

You need time to get up to speed if you look at the top of the website under resources there is a watch repair class you can take.

Hi JohnR725,

Thank you for taking time to help me. I appreciate it and will take the watch repair class once it is back online/up and running. 

Many thanks and apologies for not getting back here until now.

 

[JohnR725]

11 minutes ago, SLim said:

Thank you for taking time to help me. I appreciate it and will take the watch repair class once it is back online/up and running. 

it appears to be that we have a broken link. Try this link instead

https://www.watchfix.com/

 

[SLim]

Hi JohnR725,

Thank you. That works.

Regards.

And take care.