1905 Illinois grade #219

[KarlvonKoln]

The second in the series of 5 watch services that I'm doing for my brother: an Illinois Model #1, circa 1905. I decided to get this one done while I wait for parts shipment for the NY Standard. These are the details on the Illinois:
Serial #1777464, Grade 219, Model 1.
Open face, screw back, screw bezel, crown wind & set. Wadsworth gold-filled case, warranted 20 years, serial #1090519
Nickel finish damaskeened movement, size 12s.
Anchor lever, compensating balance with micro-metric on regulator index.
Going barrel, 3/4 plate, unadjusted.
This pretty pocket watch needed only the basic pentenniel service of strip & clean, oil & grease, and regulation. The case has a couple dings and the porcelain dial has a couple mild hairlines, but nothing so great that it robs from its aesthetic. Indeed, I think it possesses an appropriate patina for its age. Nevertheless, I cleaned the dial and polished the case, and I think it looks great now. And seems to be running strong. This was light work compared to what I face with a couple of my brother's other watches.  And again, look how pretty this movement is!  My word, I wish they still decorated mechanisms like that! And it regulated to within 7 to 8 seconds average in all positions.  That micrometric regulator is a godsend.  I've always liked those.

[Poljot]

18 minutes ago, KarlvonKoln said:

The second in the series of 5 watch services that I'm doing for my brother: an Illinois Model #1, circa 1905. I decided to get this one done while I wait for parts shipment for the NY Standard. These are the details on the Illinois:
Serial #1777464, Grade 219, Model 1.
Open face, screw back, screw bezel, crown wind & set. Wadsworth gold-filled case, warranted 20 years, serial #1090519
Nickel finish damaskeened movement, size 12s.
Anchor lever, compensating balance with micro-metric on regulator index.
Going barrel, 3/4 plate, unadjusted.
This pretty pocket watch needed only the basic pentenniel service of strip & clean, oil & grease, and regulation. The case has a couple dings and the porcelain dial has a couple mild hairlines, but nothing so great that it robs from its aesthetic. Indeed, I think it possesses an appropriate patina for its age. Nevertheless, I cleaned the dial and polished the case, and I think it looks great now. And seems to be running strong. This was light work compared to what I face with a couple of my brother's other watches.  And again, look how pretty this movement is!  My word, I wish they still decorated mechanisms like that! And it regulated to within 7 to 8 seconds average in all positions.  That micrometric regulator is a godsend.  I've always liked those.

BZ! Well done!

Do you remove the crystals to clean bezel / groove? I almost always do to remove dirt around crystals. Also often I install new mineral glass with beveled edge - looks very nice on open face pocket watches. This, of course, add $, but it's worth it.

[KarlvonKoln]

If I find a lot of grime elsewhere, like from being stored for decades under filthy conditions, I sometimes will do so.  In situations like that, I will be taking every part from every other part and just cleaning everything.  When it looks necessary, I just bite the bullet and start stripping even the case apart when possible.
But some cases, I have to consider how fragile they might be. I have had some where, when I took out the crystal, it either wouldn't go back in easily or fit well, or once I cleaned it the crystal was too loose (might have been glued?).  Now, luckily, this Illinois was not like any of that.  It wasn't really all that dirty anywhere.  It looked well cared for; simply neglected but protected. So in grooves and nooks where I didn't feel I needed to disassemble, I just ran a sharp tip of pegwood through to get the dirt out.  The Illinois was in great shape all around.  Some former owner had looked after it nicely for a number of years, so once I'd stripped and cleaned and lubed it, this watch took off running and regulating it was a breeze.  I like having an easy one now and then.

The one watch of my brother's that I'm worried about is his Elgin 241.  I already know the balance is broken, and one wheel may have a damaged or broken pivot. It looks like it may have been dropped at some point and landed hard. And it has no crystal and a load of filth inside.  I haven't really started work on it yet, so I don't know what all I will find.  Maybe quite a lot.  My brother Chuck does not know its history so he couldn't tell me anything.

Edited January 2, 2021 by KarlvonKoln

[MechanicMike]

that's a beauty. Well done.

[Poljot]

1 hour ago, KarlvonKoln said:

If I find a lot of grime elsewhere, like from being stored for decades under filthy conditions, I sometimes will do so.  In situations like that, I will be taking every part from every other part and just cleaning everything.  When it looks necessary, I just bite the bullet and start stripping even the case apart when possible.

The downside of having a x45 microscope on my desk is that EVERY WATCH looks filthy and I take all watches apart completely to clean. That includes pocket watch cases.

[oldhippy]

You should always spend time in cleaning any watch case after cleaning the movement, if the glass needs replacing then do it the same with wrist watches lugs might need to be replaced the same with the button if its smooth and hard to wind replace it. No point putting a nice clean movement back into a dirty case.  

[VWatchie]

7 hours ago, KarlvonKoln said:

That micrometric regulator is a godsend.

Beautiful watch and amazingly looking movement!

I've never regulated a watch with this type of regulator screw. How do you reach it? Perhaps you need to remove the cock, or can it be reached with the screwdriver angled to it, or perhaps some special tool?

[Nucejoe]

1 hour ago, oldhippy said:

 No point putting a nice clean movement back into a dirty case.  

That would be like shampoo ingg  only one eyebraw when taking a shower.  lol

Plenty of dirt available to fall inside the movement anytime thereafter closing the back.

 

 

[KarlvonKoln]

MechanicMike: thanks, I think so too.  Being my brother's, I wanted him to be pleased.
Poljot & Old Hippy: oh, believe me, I can get obsessive with the cleaning too.  I've just learned to be careful around the old crystals.  But inside the pendant, inside the case, inside the hinges, and all the outside,  all that is fair game. If I've just cleaned every single little part in a watch, I'm not gonna go and let the case get it dirty again.  That, and once they're all sparkly clean and almost new looking, they are the most gorgeous piece of machinery.
VWatchie: usually when a watch has a micrometric balance index, it sits on a plane somewhat higher than the barrel bridge.  A slender screwdriver easily comes in from the side and you can make the very finest adjustments like that, which is why I like to see them.  Generally, you need a careful steady hand, so you don't slide the screwdriver tip right past it and make it dive for the hairspring.  But if you're careful, it's not aimed for the hairspring.

[watchweasol]

Hi Thats a beauty and a cherishable piece of history.   You could make a off set bladed driver and as mentioned run in from an angle being very carefull there should be enough clearance, work in 1/2 turns.

[Poljot]

6 hours ago, VWatchie said:

Beautiful watch and amazingly looking movement!

I've never regulated a watch with this type of regulator screw. How do you reach it? Perhaps you need to remove the cock, or can it be reached with the screwdriver angled to it, or perhaps some special tool?

It's surprisingly easy:

- note initial position prior to disassembly

- place the regulator in the same position before having it installed

- if further adjustments are required - use a pegwood stick or a pair of tweezers to slightly push the regulator to the left side to release pressure from the screw and hold it while rotating the screw with another pair of tweezers to desired direction

Those regulating screws are extremely easy to rotate with tweezers.

 

If this is too hard for some people then remove top screw, lift the regulator spring, using a screwdriver make adjustments, reinstall using screwdriver and tweezers. It takes just a few seconds. Not the best design, but no major headache.

Edited January 2, 2021 by Poljot

[Poljot]

But of course, there is always a way to make things more challenging / frustrating by positioning the mounting screws from below. Again - tweezers & pegwood stick are your tools needed (AFTER CLEANING )

[KarlvonKoln]

Screwed from below?  I've never seen that!  Just one more thing they gotta do to us...

[Poljot]

9 minutes ago, KarlvonKoln said:

Screwed from below?  I've never seen that!  Just one more thing they gotta do to us...

I see such scenario very often and it does make sense as the regulator and also jewel holder are made of steel while the Balance Cock is copper based. Thus, the threads will last longer.

[JohnR725]

10 hours ago, VWatchie said:

've never regulated a watch with this type of regulator screw. How do you reach it? Perhaps you need to remove the cock, or can it be reached with the screwdriver angled to it, or perhaps some special tool?

 

2 hours ago, KarlvonKoln said:

Screwed from below? 

The reason why the screws are on the bottom side is for visual effect and because it's not considered something you would remove normally at least normally to regulate the watch unless there's a problem. Sometimes instead of having a screwdriver slot on the end they will have holes so you have to stick something tiny in the hole and rotate it.

18 hours ago, KarlvonKoln said:

Serial #1777464, Grade 219, Model 1

I have a link which has information on 12 size Illinois watches you might find this interesting

http://illinoiswatchguide.com/grade219.html

[KarlvonKoln]

Thanks for the info and the link, @JohnR725.  They will come in handy.

[KarlvonKoln]

Oh, and @Poljot has the right idea: if you're going to remove the whipspring of the micrometric regulator for cleaning, then you will definitely want to mark where the balance arm is on the balance cock scale.  I do a bit of graphic arts, so I use a super-fine tip marker - a Pigma Micron 005 - which uses ink similar to that in a Sharpie and comes right off with rubbing alcohol, and the tip is so fine that you can rather accurately mark the location of the balance arm.  Now, this means that you clean the balance cock separately by hand, saving that spot for last, but I don't mind that.  If it was well-regulated before, you get an accurate starting point.
The alternative is to photograph the balance cock, close-up and with high definition.  Then use the photo as a reference for setting the balance up as it was before.  Considering most of us regulate after assembly and oiling anyway, the photo should allow one to get the watch close enough to start with also.  This is the method I may switch to, and see how close I can get to before-cleaning.  I plan to experiment and see which works for me.