Identifying clock

[watchweasol 1,462]

Glad to be of help

[MechanicMike 157]

J Collins mainspring winder

 

Edited January 7 by MechanicMike

[MechanicMike 157]

Letter from Joe Collins, 

Thanks for inquiring about my mainspring winder. I do not make the Winder any longer. Here are the Plans

I do not supply the sleeves for capturing barreled springs. These can be bought at Merritts Antiques for about $40 US. (9 piece, Ollie Baker type) They can also be found at TimeSavers and other materials outlets.

A video of the winder in use can be found here: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uOsZ_ZIvLc

Thanks again for the inquiry,
Joe Collins  
Email: [email protected]

@@@@@@@@@

Update from Al,
Here is a gentleman that built a winder that explains what he chose to do. I do not like his copper clamps for the barrel, they may scratch the barrel. But if lined with leather or made of wood is another way to accomplish the task.
Use a Tap handle which has a 4 jaw chuck to grip the four sided mainspring arbor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5XxM5PwSNM&t=149s

And another variation on a theme using mechanics tools.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qczmx8I1zzI
He also shows the purchased components from stores.

There are many other YouTube video's in case you want to browse other clockmakers solution to a problem.
Clock repair supply houses:
Merritts.com
Timesavers.com
 

[MechanicMike 157]

haven't even got to the movement yet! clean and polish...brass brass and more brass! 

K & O 400 day circa 1950

[oldhippy 2,557]

The movement is brass, be careful with the rest as it is only plate and you don't want to rub that off. 

[watchweasol 1,462]

Well no turning back now Mike,  You will enjoy the experience, they are just a bit different from the norm.  cheers

[watchweasol 1,462]

Hi Mike  If you can get one of these tools it makes the escapement easier to adjust, nt cheap  the one pictured is from cousins at £27  you can get them cheaper though.

[oldhippy 2,557]

That tool is a must. I still have mine.

[watchweasol 1,462]

IT certainly is  I did in the past use jewelers pliers with fine jaws but the control was not good with this tool you can get micrometer adjustment, would use nothing else to adjust these clocks.

[MechanicMike 157]

Latest on the 1950 Kundo

Hi everyone-I've wracked my brain and I need assistance. Pretty simple re-assembly you would think but sure enough, the gods of horology want to play games today so it's not cooperating, and after several attempts and looking all over, the center wheel and 3rd wheel seem to be binding up and the whole thing won't fall into place. What am I missing?  The first series of pics shows the train and where the 3rd n 4th wheel are touching, locking up there. Next is the hour wheel, intermediate wheel, washers, lock washer, hand tension washer and hand lock pin, as they sat when I disassembled.  The last 3 pics are time of disassembly, which I'm attempting to do just in reverse order.  My suspicion lies with the washers or maybe a wayward spacer that pinged that I missed? Or a round peg in a square hole? The 400 day bible gives nothing except a nice parts page. I know I bet it's right in front of me but I need a fresh set of eyes. Thanks people I'll check back in awhile. Happy Sunday.

MM

[HectorLooi 232]

I think you got the 4th wheel upside down. If you look at the original photo you posted, the wheel should be the other way round.

[MechanicMike 157]

On 1/12/2021 at 5:22 AM, watchweasol said:

Hi Mike  If you can get one of these tools it makes the escapement easier to adjust, nt cheap  the one pictured is from cousins at £27  you can get them cheaper though.

Hi WW I read somewhere that a needle nose pliers does the same. Is that true? Otherwise I have this on my radar

[oldhippy 2,557]

5 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

I think you got the 4th wheel upside down. If you look at the original photo you posted, the wheel should be the other way round.

Agree.

[watchweasol 1,462]

Hi Mike    needle noses will work ok but you don't have the same control, with the tool its micrometer adjustment . If you are going to use needle nose pliers stick somthing over the serrations or file them smooth. Or alternativly make a tool with a slot in it to fit the upper spring block with a longish handle.

As far as the wheels are concerned the center wheel that carries the hour wheel etc will have hole in it for the pin to hold the hands on so put that bit through the front plate first and start from there fitting the other wheels as you go. once the back plate is on check the rotation of the wheels and then fit the anchor/pallet. once done then reassemble the wheels on the front plate 

[MechanicMike 157]

On 1/12/2021 at 5:22 AM, watchweasol said:

Hi Mike  If you can get one of these tools it makes the escapement easier to adjust, nt cheap  the one pictured is from cousins at £27  you can get them cheaper though.

Happy to report, one is on the way. Getting new toys is part of the fun

[MechanicMike 157]

9 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

I think you got the 4th wheel upside down. If you look at the original photo you posted, the wheel should be the other way round.

 

On 1/12/2021 at 6:19 AM, watchweasol said:

IT certainly is  I did in the past use jewelers pliers with fine jaws but the control was not good with this tool you can get micrometer adjustment, would use nothing else to adjust these clocks.

 

9 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

I think you got the 4th wheel upside down. If you look at the original photo you posted, the wheel should be the other way round.

see pics next post. 

[MechanicMike 157]

Hector, Weasol(you mind being called Weasol? always feel weird about that lol)and Hippy:

got back from clearing out the latest snow storm and I took some better pics. I don't think I have the center wheel backwards, as the first pic might be deceiving. it can only go in one way because of the hole for the hand tension washer and pin, and the larger pivot hole size, and the long end to accommodate the hour wheel and cannon pinion, shown with red arrows in 1st 2nd and 3rd pics. 4th pic in red and orange shows where the wheels are impinging on each other and 5th pic shows train arrangement with regard to center/4th wheel and 3rd wheel. so yes, Weasol that's where I originally started was off the hand tension pin hole on center/4th wheel and went from there and ran into the wheels upsetting the apple cart. maybe was this clock assembled wrong by a previous repairman and got the washers wrong or a spacer missing unbeknownst to me? I have zero history on this one only that it's a family heirloom and hasn't worked in over 40 years. 

tell you guys one thing-my coloring book and crayon skills are becoming sharp.

here I come...

I love this stuff...

[MechanicMike 157]

post script: the view of the larger pivot, red arrow, is where I suspect a spacer, or the two washers that were directly behind the cannon pinion might go, to provide clearance between the two wheels. but I don't know. anyone want to loan me their 1950 Kundo 400 day clock for a reverse engineering study with me? 

[HectorLooi 232]

if you look at your original post, the 3rd photo shows that not all the wheels are clustered against the front plate. One of them is reversed with the wheel against the back plate. As a general rule, the gears are always arranged with the wheel to pinion, wheel to pinion. I think that wheel upside down.

There might be some confusion here. We are not talking about the centre wheel. The going barrel is counted as the 1st wheel or sometimes called the great wheel. So the 4th wheel we are referring to is the one before the centre wheel.

[watchweasol 1,462]

Hi Mike  I have attached two pics of my Kundo miniture hope they provide enough Information. On way is to look at the wheel and pinion sizes the largest near the barrel and get finer to the escapement, not always fool proof but a good guide.

[MechanicMike 157]

6 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

if you look at your original post, the 3rd photo shows that not all the wheels are clustered against the front plate. One of them is reversed with the wheel against the back plate. As a general rule, the gears are always arranged with the wheel to pinion, wheel to pinion. I think that wheel upside down.

There might be some confusion here. We are not talking about the centre wheel. The going barrel is counted as the 1st wheel or sometimes called the great wheel. So the 4th wheel we are referring to is the one before the centre wheel.

Aha! Ok that might explain it-we were talking about two different things. Counting the barrel. Ok I'll be back at it when I get home later today and let you know. Many thanks Hector.

[MechanicMike 157]

1 minute ago, watchweasol said:

Hi Mike  I have attached two pics of my Kundo miniture hope they provide enough Information. On way is to look at the wheel and pinion sizes the largest near the barrel and get finer to the escapement, not always fool proof but a good guide.

Combining this with what Hector has said, I  will be checking as soon as I get home later and follow up.  Thanks Weasol. 

[watchweasol 1,462]

My Pleasure, I can always dismantle mine If you get stuck.      Weasol is ok  it was my nickname at school many years ago.

[MechanicMike 157]

18 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

if you look at your original post, the 3rd photo shows that not all the wheels are clustered against the front plate

Bingo! Hector you nailed it! I had gotten so flustered I didn't see it so I went back to the very beginning and looked at the 3rd shot as you said and there it was...well done sir. well done. Thank you very much! if i never get this thing to run again, I'll still be happy I got restored back on track. whew.

[MechanicMike 157]

12 hours ago, watchweasol said:

Hi Mike  I have attached two pics of my Kundo miniture hope they provide enough Information. On way is to look at the wheel and pinion sizes the largest near the barrel and get finer to the escapement, not always fool proof but a good guide.

yep, Hector and Hippy nailed it, and I confirmed and compared to your pics. Except now, i'm wondering, "How the heck does he get his stuff so clean and shiny?"

thanks Weasol!