Hair Springs

[carpioboy]

Hi Everyone, 

                I would like to ask if anyone has experience of hair springs produced by British Precision Springs Limited.

               I have zero experience of the material used for their manufacture which in the main is Phosphor bronze.

              I did email them to ask about the different characteristics of their material versus Elinvar for example but i only  received a fob off reply .

Truth is that there are few places to buy new hair springs now and as i am setting out to make my own watch from scratch, i am trying to find the few pieces that i can not make  before doing so . 

At one time they made springs fitted into Smiths clocks and watches so there must be some experience out there of Phosphor bronze springs .

Any info you may have will be very welcome .

 

Regards 

carpioboy 

Jeff

 

[Geo]

I wish I could help Jeff, but is way outside my scope of knowledge.

I sincerely hope you post up progress when you start making your watch, I'm sure many on here would like to see it. :)

[MortenS]

Interesting, what kind are you planning to make, pocket or a wrist watch?

 

 

Morten

[bobm12]

Very interested too about this project progress!

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[clockboy]

I have used this company before but their response is very,very slow. I ordered a few hairsprings that they actually sell with collet attached and this really makes the process even slower. I did contact them and it seems they employ someone to attach the collets only when sufficient orders have been received.  Unfortunately there are no other companies that I know of that sell a good selection of new hairsprings. 

Edited March 18, 2015 by clockboy

[carpioboy]

Hi Again,

                Thanks to all for your replies and your interest.

 If and when i start i will be sure to keep you all updated .

 My pocket watch will be loosely styled around the watches of George Daniels.

 

 I must tell you that i am very inexperienced and will no doubt face many challenges. The thing is that i am making this watch for myself and even if it is not up to scratch as long as it works then i will get a lot of pleasure from it . However i do like a challenge and am prepared to give everything a try with the exception of the main spring. the hair spring and the crystal.

 I have now found a solution to the main spring but both the hairspring and the crystal remain problematic.

 I will need to find at least two of each as i would not like to embark on this project without having spare parts for the future.

 

The hairspring available to me is made from phosphor bronze. I have never come across a hairspring made of phosphor bronze and just wondered if anyone on this board has experience of this material for hair springs.

 Anyway , once again thank you for your input .

 

 regards

 

 carpioboy

   jeff

[MortenS]

What kind of hairspring are you looking for? The old swiss system of hairspring sizes is called CGS, and before that GR. There are still a few places were you can find hairsprings with CGS sizes of Nivarox or Isoval. But if I were making a pocket watch, I would have looked for some NOS Hamilton Elinvar hairsprings. George Daniels said that Elinvar was the best there is.

 

Morten 

Edited March 18, 2015 by MortenS

[RicardoG]

Hi Everyone.

Maybe I can help a little about phosphor bronze. I believe carpioboy got wrong info due the hairspring cannot be made with phosphor bronze. As I know, phosphor bronze is a porous and soft yellow metal, normally used as bearings in small electrical motors. You can find this bearings in small electrical motors used in home appliances like fans and vacun cleaners, etc. This material, as porous, have the property to absorb and retain oil for lubricate the shaft it support in the motor. It is too soft to be used as hairspring.

Because it is easy to mold and machine, I think the part of the hairspring that have phosphor bronze is the smal middle pressure ring that fix the hairspring to the balance shaft.

I can be wrong, but that is the application I know for phosphor bronze.

 

Ricardo

[Geo]

Hi Ricardo, that is certainly the most common use of phosphor bronze, and like steel it comes in many forms.

I suspect that the phosphor bronze hairsprings are in fact beryllium copper springs, which is sometimes referred to beryllium copper phosphor bronze. This metal is both springy and ant-magnetic!

[carpioboy]

Hi All,

 Thanks for the latest inputs .

 I have included a little part of the companies hair spring stock list to emphasise that they are made from Phosphor bronze.

 This company was once part of Smiths clocks .

 

 I am aware of Hamilton hair springs and the material they are made from. I do keep an eye open for the sizes that i want but have not yet found what i require. Yes George did like those springs a lot however i suspect that he had access to many things that i do not have LOL .

   

Torque
gm/cm/100^o
 

Part

No.

Type

O.D.

MM

Collet Bore
MM

Spring Material

Packet Quantity

Price In G.B.P
Including
Worldwide
Postage

0.00136600 0??

HSC

294

Spring Only

7.00

 

Phosphor Bronze

Quantity 10

£6.00 Buy Now

0.00169

HSC

3897

Spring Only

6.00

 

Phosphor Bronze

Quantity 10

£6.00 Buy Now

0.0018

HSC

3977

Spring Only

6.00

 

Phosphor Bronze

Quantity 10

£6.00 Buy Now

0.0018

HSC

1584

Spring Only

7.00

 

Phosphor Bronze

Quantity 10

£6.00 Buy Now

0.0030

HSC

4701

Spring Only

9.00

 

Phosphor Bronze

Quantity 10

£6.00 Buy Now

0.0033

HSC

4430

Spring Only

7.00

 

Phosphor Bronze

Quantity 10

£6.00 Buy Now

0.0038

HSC

4377

Spring Only

6.50

 

Phosphor Bronze

Quantity 10

£6.00 Buy Now

0.0040

HSC

4380

Spring Only

7.30

 

Phosphor Bronze

Quantity 10

£6.00 Buy Now

0.0044

HSC

3935

Spring Only

8.00

 

Phosphor Bronze

Quantity 10

£6.00 Buy N

 

 

 Thanks guys 

  Regards 

 

   carpioboy

     Jeff 

[MortenS]

Maybe you should have talked to this guy?

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150487677305?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

Morten

[RicardoG]

Hi Ricardo, that is certainly the most common use of phosphor bronze, and like steel it comes in many forms.

I suspect that the phosphor bronze hairsprings are in fact beryllium copper springs, which is sometimes referred to beryllium copper phosphor bronze. This metal is both springy and ant-magnetic!

Hi Geo, I know beryllium cooper, as I worked in a VW factory, beryllium cooper is large used to make the arms and caps for the spot welding gun machines, It is look like cooper but it is very hard and weight as plumb. If you try to cut a piece, you will loose one  or two strip saws, due the tooth disapears. It is strong as steel and good conductivity as cooper. But I didn't know that they use this material or some alloy with this four materials to make a hairspring. Good to know, one more tip I learn.

[Marc]

If you check out this companies stock listing they clearly distinguish between phosphor bronze and beryllium copper. They also do cadmium copper, stainless steel, Chronospan (which sounds like it is something specific to horological applications), Nispan C, nickel silver, and so on.

 

I reckon your best bet would be to phone them and ask to speak to someone in their technical or design department. Like as not if you emailed them it only got as far as a clerk in their sales department who may not have even understood the question. If you can get to talk directly with a technician or better still a designer you probably won't be able to get them off the phone.

It's an approach that has always served me well.