Jump to content

How do I identify a replacement movement.


Bradders

Recommended Posts

Hi everyone. 
This watch was my Dads, he died whe I was 7 and this is pretty much the only thing I have of his but it’s not in great shape.  I’m pretty sure the movement is not financially viable. Although I’ve fixed the keyless works, it’s pretty worn and I think I the balance spring is goosed. I don’t imagine it’s a cheap job to have done professionally. 

Anyway, I’d like to replace the movement and would like to know where to start. 
the current one is a Basis 17 Jewel movement which I guess aren’t available?

 The dial is held to the movement by two screws on the front face (see pics) at just past the 12 and 6 o’clock positions. Is this an unusual way of securing the dial? 
 

I’d love to re-use the case, hands and dial so it at least still looks like my late Fathers watch (no jokes about time keeping please!! Lol). 
 

Can anyone offer me any advice as to how I identify a suitable movement?

Thanks in advance,

Simon. 

0B357BDD-D67B-4930-B301-723E5C4F6188.jpeg

EF976781-CB2E-430C-BF82-EC3BA553DAF6.jpeg

D2B4BD5D-8695-48E6-B1B4-17299227E8A1.jpeg

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is a BFG866  - not too difficult to find, and I may even have a donor in my stash. I'd need to check.

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&&2uswk&Baumgartner_866

https://17jewels.info/movements/b/baumgartner/baumgartner-866/

Your version is the 17 Jewel Calendar version, but I think most parts are interchangeable between the different versions.

Cousins have some parts.

https://www.cousinsuk.com/category/filter/bfg-movement-parts

Cousins also have the service manual which will detail the differences between the different versions.

https://www.cousinsuk.com/PDF/categories/2529_BFG 866,866.31.7.pdf

More about BFG here.

http://www.mikrolisk.de/show.php?site=280&suchwort=Baumgartner&searchWhere=all#sucheMarker

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, AndyHull said:

That is a BFG866  - not too difficult to find, and I may even have a donor in my stash. I'd need to check.

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&&2uswk&Baumgartner_866

https://17jewels.info/movements/b/baumgartner/baumgartner-866/

Your version is the 17 Jewel Calendar version, but I think most parts are interchangeable between the different versions.

Cousins have some parts.

https://www.cousinsuk.com/category/filter/bfg-movement-parts

Cousins also have the service manual which will detail the differences between the different versions.

https://www.cousinsuk.com/PDF/categories/2529_BFG 866,866.31.7.pdf

More about BFG here.

http://www.mikrolisk.de/show.php?site=280&suchwort=Baumgartner&searchWhere=all#sucheMarker

You are my saviour!!! Thank you so much! I will check these links out! 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Naptha will dissolve the old tired and tarry oils, and free up all of the gummed up parts.

Naptha == Lighter fluid. Unleaded petrol also works. Obviously these products are highly flammable, and probably not very good for your lungs or skin, so work in a well ventilated area, avoid smoking or juggling with fire, and wear gloves. 

Lightly oil means VERY lightly oil.A tiny amount. Just enough to lubricate those tiny pinions and no more. Any excess has a nasty habit of migrating to places it shouldn't like the dial, the crystal, or worst of all, the hairspring.


At all costs, avoid getting any oil on the hairspring.

If you do accidentally manage to oil the hairspring, then all is not lost, we can advise how to recover from this issue, but avoid it if you can. Hairsprings are very delicate (obviously) and oil will cause the coils to stick together, either stopping the watch, or worse still, causing the hairspring to deform. 

If you don't have a watch oiler, use a pin.

Flatten about 1/4mm of the point with a pair of pliers or mole grips to give you a tiny spade like end.

Watch oil can be picked up online, but is relatively expensive. Watch oilers can also be picked up online, and are relatively cheap.

DO NOT USE WD40. It is not a lubricant. It is a moisture repellent, originally designed to deal with the frozen condensation that forms on  the surface of rocket propellent tanks on the Atlas missile. It has many uses, but oiling the mechanism of watches and clocks is NOT one of them.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WD-40

If you have nothing suitable, and can't justify the high price of watch oil, then at a pinch, you will get away with sewing machine oil, or supermarket own brand scent free baby oil. This is not a recommendation, just an observation. Proper watch oil is recommended.

Once you have it running, carefully clean your grubby fingerprints from the dial and the crystal and remember next time to wear finger cots or latex gloves. Now inspect the crystal and dial for more fingerprints and dust. Once you have the thing cased back up, its a pain to have to disassemble again just because some spec of dust got in.

Do not blow into or onto anything. The condensation from your breath will cause things to rust, and interesting bacterial growths to appear at some random point in the future. Use a rubber puffer if you feel the need to blow on anything.

Canned air may well destroy the hairspring, as it comes out of the can at about ten thousand miles per hour, scattering screws and other tiny parts like hands, and bending hairsprings.  Don't ask me how I know this. ?

Edited by AndyHull
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, AndyHull said:

Naptha will dissolve the old tired and tarry oils, and free up all of the gummed up parts.

Naptha == Lighter fluid. Unleaded petrol also works. Obviously these products are highly flammable, and probably not very good for your lungs or skin, so work in a well ventilated area, avoid smoking or juggling with fire, and wear gloves. 

Lightly oil means VERY lightly oil.A tiny amount. Just enough to lubricate those tiny pinions and no more. Any excess has a nasty habit of migrating to places it shouldn't like the dial, the crystal, or worst of all, the hairspring.


At all costs, avoid getting any oil on the hairspring.

If you do accidentally manage to oil the hairspring, then all is not lost, we can advise how to recover from this issue, but avoid it if you can. Hairsprings are very delicate (obviously) and oil will cause the coils to stick together, either stopping the watch, or worse still, causing the hairspring to deform. 

If you don't have a watch oiler, use a pin.

Flatten about 1/4mm of the point with a pair of pliers or mole grips to give you a tiny spade like end.

Watch oil can be picked up online, but is relatively expensive. Watch oilers can also be picked up online, and are relatively cheap.

DO NOT USE WD40. It is not a lubricant. It is a moisture repellent, originally designed to deal with the frozen condensation that forms on  the surface of rocket propellent tanks on the Atlas missile. It has many uses, but oiling the mechanism of watches and clocks is NOT one of them.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WD-40

If you have nothing suitable, and can't justify the high price of watch oil, then at a pinch, you will get away with sewing machine oil, or supermarket own brand scent free baby oil. This is not a recommendation, just an observation. Proper watch oil is recommended.

Once you have it running, carefully clean your grubby fingerprints from the dial and the crystal and remember next time to wear finger cots or latex gloves. Now inspect the crystal and dial for more fingerprints and dust. Once you have the thing cased back up, its a pain to have to disassemble again just because some spec of dust got in.

Do not blow into or onto anything. The condensation from your breath will cause things to rust, and interesting bacterial growths to appear at some random point in the future. Use a rubber puffer if you feel the need to blow on anything.

Canned air may well destroy the hairspring, as it comes out of the can at about ten thousand miles per hour, scattering screws and other tiny parts like hands, and bending hairsprings.  Don't ask me how I know this. ?

Thanks so much for taking the time to reply!

I’ve certainly got nothing to lose by soaking the movement and if avoids the need for disassembling them I’m fully onboard! I’d like to delve further into this but I’ll buy a donor movement to learn on.

I’ve already got a puffer and will get some Nephtha or similar along with some watch oil.

If I can save every bit of this watch, I will for sentimental reasons. Otherwise it’ll end up like Triggers broom and before you know it, it won’t be my Dads watch any more! ?

 

And I’ve stopped juggling fire these days...since the ‘incident’.

Edited by Bradders
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Bradders said:

And I’ve stopped juggling fire these days...since the ‘incident’.

No eyebrows is not a good look. Could be worse though I guess.

image.thumb.png.66a7fc7693972e7be6350cd06d378310.png

I'll take a look in my stash this evening and see if I have a suitable BFG 866 donor in case you need parts. I doubt if I have a date version, but I probably have something I can pop in the post (FOC of course).

By the way, you will generally get away with dunking a pin lever movement like this in lighter fluid, but I wouldn't recommend it for something a little more delicate. Fine for the more agricultural stuff like Timex mechanicals,  BFG 866 and EB8800 perhaps, but not for anything more fragile.

Also the purists will say (quite rightly) that this is not the best way to ensure that everything is squeaky clean. Professional watch cleaning is a somewhat more sophisticated process. 

Edited by AndyHull
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I predict you will see all kinds of crud in the solution.  crud which keeps the watch from working. Granted this is an expedient, not a substitute for a proper full service, but you should be able to determine  if the movement is a runner or not.You may want to change the naphtha two or three times. you can use a light synthetic oil for lubrication.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, AndyHull said:

No eyebrows is not a good look. Could be worse though I guess.

image.thumb.png.66a7fc7693972e7be6350cd06d378310.png

I'll take a look in my stash this evening and see if I have a suitable BFG 866 donor in case you need parts. I doubt if I have a date version, but I probably have something I can pop in the post (FOC of course).

By the way, you will generally get away with dunking a pin lever movement like this in lighter fluid, but I wouldn't recommend it for something a little more delicate. Fine for the more agricultural stuff like Timex mechanicals,  BFG 866 and EB8800 perhaps, but not for anything more fragile.

Also the purists will say (quite rightly) that this is not the best way to ensure that everything is squeaky clean. Professional watch cleaning is a somewhat more sophisticated process. 

That’s very kind of you Andy. Thank you!

Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Getting back to the issue which is us guys repairing or just enjoying horological exploits. The big worry now is how sound is Cousins as company going forward. The of cost if this 8 year legal battle will be astronomical. Cut backs will happen noticed already how the Cousins catalogue is half its size this year. The main supplier going out of business will hit the UK horological community in a big way.    On the Brexit issue it was about a sovereign country being able to make its own laws and trade with any country in the world. I cannot see what was wrong with this. For those who wish to re join the cost would be very high indeed.
    • Yes, it's the same (old) song and it's getting worse & worse;  
    • 🤔 leaving the EU meant that UK was no longer part of the convention and have already been turned down an independent reapplication. I'm pretty sure courts have to be held in Switzerland in this case. There will be a lot more watches stashed away in draws  tbh, folk wont be able to afford to maintain them. Cheap watches will be bought and top end watches by folk with plenty of cash that can pay for service and repair. The expensive once in a lifetime gifts and everything else inbetween will be at the forgotton when they stop working. I know i was being a numpty, get used to it 😄 Anybody that knows will boycott them, but besides repairers who will know. Nope will never buy one, i made that decision as soon as i learnt about this. 
    • although not in this case.  It was the Lugano Convention and its deficiencies that allowed a Swiss court decision in the first place.  This isnt really a Brexit issue at all.  A decision that affects both the EU and the UK should never have been heard in Switzerland. I bet the authorised service centres in the UK are pretty pleased.  It's a massive shame, though; I believe watch owners should be able to choose to have their watch serviced by whoever they trust.
    • Hi guys I think that old hippy is correct, it opens the gates for china to manufacture aftermarket spare parts. considering that they already do work on behalf of the Swiss I guess this decision gives the a little more legitimacy to tool up and I am sure they will take advantage of the situation either with or without the blessing of the Swiss watch industry  Having read about the protectionist machinations of the Swiss in the history of Europe they were the only ones to get fat at everybody else’s expense. I think the outcome could have been guessed at but ,  fair play to Cousins UK for standing up to them.  Now the question,  will everybody boycott Swiss watches and Swatch, no way they will still fill their coffers.  Me I stick with the Japanese once renowned for cheap shitty watches who came good through industrial effort and don’t for get the Russians that most dismiss as low grade crap. Wouldn’t buy a swatch product ever how about you all.? a
×
×
  • Create New...