Platax tool

[AshF]

I'm going to attempt my first balance staff removal and replacement.  I've read what I can and have watched a few videos.  Now I'm looking for the tools I'll need.  I see that you can buy a cheap roller remover, sorted.  But why doesn't anyone make a Platex tool anymore?  I see you can remove the staff with a staking set and a tool to fit over the balance to protect it, what's this tool called and where can I get one from?

Oh and, what ever you do, don't search for "Platex" on ebay...

 

[Klassiker]

Ah yes, I remember. The Platex 24 hour...

[watchweasol]

Isn't that the one that lifts and separates?.      

[watchweasol]

The platax tool was an expensive piece of kit  for what it did  there are K&D staff removing tools at less cost, they come in different sizes and do what the Platax tool did. Have a look on ebay or the net for details.

[AshF]

Yes, that is the tool I'm looking for.

https://kanddinverto.weebly.com/no-50-balance-staff-remover.html

Is this what everyone uses or doesn't anyone replace staffs anymore?

[nickelsilver]

Plenty of watchmakers replace staffs still. The preferred method of removal (as taught in school) is to turn away the hub in the lathe, which allows the staff to come out the rivet side with little effort. Knocking the staff through, even with the aid of a Platex or K&D tool, risks opening the hole in the balance by forcing the expanded rivet through. It's worse with softer balances, but always a risk. Some pros stick with the Platex (or K&D), and seem to do OK. I personally prefer to turn off the hub.

 

The Platex wasn't cheap to begin with, but has been out of production for some time, thus the high prices.

[AshF]

Unfortunately, I don't have a lathe and probably won't for a few years.  I'll keep an eye out for the K&D tool or an unruh-max and back burner this project for later.

Thanks guys.

[JohnR725]

4 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

The preferred method of removal (as taught in school)

it probably depends upon what school you go to as one of the schools I went to their favorite tool was this one found at the link below. it appears to be no longer in the Bergeon catalog so I assume it was discontinued also. Probably because it's rather expensive.

https://www.nielsmachines.com/de/verkauft-bergeon-5478-mofres-balance-staff-remove.html

I suspect what you're seeing with Swiss tools is the perception of what they perceive is needed. In other words the perception is that people are no longer changing balance staffs in modern watch repair because they just replacing the balance complete.

4 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

Knocking the staff through, even with the aid of a Platex or K&D tool, risks opening the hole in the balance by forcing the expanded rivet through. It's worse with softer balances, but always a risk. Some pros stick with the Platex (or K&D), and seem to do OK. I personally prefer to turn off the hub.

knocking the staff out only works some of the time. You have to understand what you're doing when you using the tools.  my experiences with the K&D tool it would also apply to the other one. basically what it is if you attempt to knock the staff out and it shows resistance then you have to have a  lathe. Especially when you get in the vintage watches for a variety of reasons the rivet is extreme and driving it out is not in the best option.

one of the schools I was that the instructor showed how before knocking out input the balance in the  lathe and you just weaken the rivet. He always had perfect success with that but if you're an instructor in a classroom you get really good at doing balance staffs.

Then unfortunately especially if you're doing vintage watches you going to need a lathe. Often times staffs have to be modified or pivots have to be refinished.

 

[praezis]

If you turn away the hub or use a Molfres to grind it away, both are the same preserving methods of removing a staff.

19 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

Some pros stick with the Platex (or K&D), and seem to do OK

I suppose they never saw the picture below or don't care. On discussion with such a pro in US who insisted in punching staffs out - said this is taught by WOSTEP - , I sacrificed a valuable NOS balance wheel  (I have plenty of). It shows, not just the rivet but the staff body, too, is distorted by rivetting.

Frank

Edited November 25, 2020 by praezis

[nickelsilver]

21 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

it probably depends upon what school you go to as one of the schools I went to their favorite tool was this one found at the link below. it appears to be no longer in the Bergeon catalog so I assume it was discontinued also. Probably because it's rather expensive.

https://www.nielsmachines.com/de/verkauft-bergeon-5478-mofres-balance-staff-remove.html

 

 

Ha, they had that at WOSTEP, I stuck with turning off the hub but the instructors really liked that machine.

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, nickelsilver said:

Ha, they had that at WOSTEP, I stuck with turning off the hub but the instructors really liked that machine.

sometimes I like to joke that I was a slow learner and went to two schools.

Schools of horology and their tools conceivably could make for a multi-paragraph discussion. Seemingly this should be a simple subject but it’s not as I think there’s a whole variety of influences not always apparent if you’ve only been exposed to one school.

For instance if you are at the above mentioned school they would be doing training watches. The same watches over and over again until you are perfect and then you found out you are not perfect enough. This is where a nifty tool to grind the hub off works really well. It works fast and there’s no damage to the balance wheel unless of course somebody wasn’t paying attention. But don’t worry they have a infinite supply of spare parts.

Unfortunately that nifty tool is expensive and what about if your school is in America would it be filled with expensive Swiss tools probably not. Although I do love a fuzzy memory that there may have been a Platex tool on the instructors bench just too long ago to remember.

Then other thing is of amusement for me in that a variety of companies have made balance staffs specifically designed to have the rivets break off. Unfortunately unless you’re paying attention you will not necessarily know which staffs there were but both Hamilton and Elgin had staffs specifically designed to be driven out. Rolex even as a staff that’s meant to be pushed out.

always interesting people's methods that work for them but seemed totally ill logical to other people. then unfortunately all of the methods described above can be bad..

 

Edited November 25, 2020 by JohnR725
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