Watch case holder tool Die Shape & Material

[Tinworth]

Hi,

This is my first post on any site, so hello.

I am a novice at watch servicing and repair, but am making my move, I hope, to the next level and am therefore slowly upgrading certain tools, working area and approach, such as how to avoid damage to any part of the watch. As part of this I have been looking for recommendations online as to what is the best shape and material for watch case holder pins, jaws or dies as it seems to me that these factors could influence how well the holder grips and retains the watch case in the holder without mishap. I am leaning towards those with a flat edge at the bottom of the die with the upper part sloping outwards to help prevent the case slipping up & out if you have to apply a good amount of torque because the back is on very tight.

Any thoughts to help me make my decision which units to buy?

Many thanks.

Neil

[jdm]

I have covered the subject in the topic below. There is also a wooden type which I cover separately, you can adapt it to the actual shape for stubborn cases. Get a couple different and try yourself, that helps more than speculating.

 

[watchweasol]

Hi  Neil and welcome to the forum    I have attached two documents that you may find useful regarding watch repair, there is also another tool lost on the site, found through the search function on the home screen by DrG who is a member. Again its a comprehensive list.      cheers

1612608791_ToolsfortheHobbyist (1).pdf TZIllustratedGlossary.pdf

[Nucejoe]

Welcome to the forum .

[Tinworth]

Thanks.

Perhaps a bit past a novice then as I have all of these tools and have been using them. I have a good aluminium copy of the Horotec 08.001 type of case holder. The holder base itself I am happy with, but it comes with 4 nylon dies with parallel sides and pins that do not fit too well into the base. My plan, to improve it's function, is to replace the dies with better shaped ones and wrap plumbers tape around the pins if they don't fit sweetly. As you know the replacement dies can have  parallel sides, sides that deviate outwards from their waist and a complicated cut-out sort by Horotec as seen on their case holder 07.374 (dies 07.374 A); they can also come with shoulders at the base of the dies, or shouldered but with one side cut flat, a bit like Marc's Oyster holder. I have only tried the dies that I currently have and the dies by Horotec & Bergeon in Delrin or nylon are pretty expensive (£32 for 4) and I don't wish to buy a couple of different sets for that reason, but nor do I want to just guess at one set, only to find out in a years time that if I had bought a different die pattern that life would have been easier and that I would have avoided damaging a watch or two by slippage as I try and open the back - I am very aware that technique can minimise this and improving my technique in all areas is very much part of my plan, but good technique comes from knowing how to do things properly, but as I am sure you are all painfully aware, from a great deal from of practice and having sensible kit . So if anyone has any advice about this particular subject I would be very grateful. I don't feel like I am at the stage of lashing out a couple of hundred pounds on an all singing & dancing case opener. I have so far concentrated on getting good drivers & tweezers, a good loupe, a timegrapher, good hand removers and fitters, good oils and all of the other sundries that one needs.

Many thanks for the welcome and the two articles sent and reference to previous threads. The TZ glossary looks great by the way and its always good to see how others set up their workspace, particularly as this is one of the big changes that I am making.

Thanks.

Neil

[Tinworth]

Hi Again,

I suppose that the other idea is that all dies are born equal and that I don't need to worry which pattern die I use, just make sure the pins fit well or upgrade to a better machine.

[watchweasol]

Hi Neil  A bit beyond the newbie then if you have amassed the tools already. the attached you may find interesting. 

Witschi Training Course.pdf

[jdm]

16 hours ago, Tinworth said:

I suppose that the other idea is that all dies are born equal and that I don't need to worry which pattern die I use, just make sure the pins fit well or upgrade to a better machine.

Avoid holders with smooth pins if possible, they tend to slip up all the time. Some types have screwed posts, and wood ones have no pins at all.

[Tudor]

Probably not what you want to hear, but for the Rolex and Tudor cases I seem to gravitate to, I found the best method is to hold the case in my left hand, and the die with a handwheel in my right hand. Sometimes I may wear a thin leather glove, but often not. I like to be able to balance the downward pressure and rotational force, so it does not "chatter" out of the grooves and also that I am not applying undue pressure to the threads once it is spinning.

I have an aluminum case holder with the four Delrin covered pins and either the case pops out of the pins, or the pins pop out of the base. Since throwing that across the room in a fit of rage, my life has been easier.

[Tinworth]

Hi All,

Thanks very much for the training course docs watchweasol; something to get my teeth into! Very kind.

Both Tudor & JDM, it does not surprise me what you say - my experience as well. Not sure how I am going to go forward on this one yet as I have spent all my Christmas money on other watch kit improvement already!  I may just have to wait & think about it some more and for the time being continue as I am. I may tighten up the pin fit into the base with plumbers tape as I mentioned and possibly put some extra grip on the plastic die itself to see if that helps. I will also give the holding in the hand with a glove on technique a go & see if it works for me.

I have read many threads on this forum over the past few years, so its nice to have posted myself at last- cheers for the warm welcome.

[Tudor]

Thinking about the aluminum holder: you could drill and tap side holes to insert a set screw to bear on the side of the post, so it won’t climb out. 

The issue (one of them anyway) is that the frame twists under tension, and now the pins are angled away from center. Start twisting and they walk up out of their bores. 

[Tinworth]

Your reading my mind Tudor!

I was thinking of tapping the post hole, getting the right screw/ bolt and putting them through my own die's (from whatever I can lay my hands on that seem the right size, strength & surface friction) but as you say, a set screw should also work.

[Tudor]

You could probably get a tube of Delrin and then run a cap screw through it into the tapped base. 

[Tinworth]

That is a good idea. 

I have also just taken jdm's advice and ordered three cheap holders from Ebay for £17 so I can get their three different types of posts to experiment with and aim to pick which works best, including my home grown ones, as we have discussed. After that, if nothing works to satisfaction, next Christmas I know what will be in my bag of goodies - a 5700 type opener!

Cheers