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Pocket watch cannon pinion removal

AshF

By AshF
in Watch Repairs Help & Advice

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AshF WRT Addict

AshF

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He all,

I can't remove this cannon pinion using my cheap presto tool.  It's smooth with nothing to grip on to.  I'm reluctant to get my hand removers under the pinion for fear of breaking it.  I guess my only option is to fork out for the Bergeon 4854?  I know it's an investment but it sure is expensive.  Any other ideas?

IMG_20201116_194240.jpg.f1f0d9ef387c6a2525d2f2994065d4ab.jpg

The other side has this hand setting cap, what's the correct term?  Without removing it I can't remove the bridge.  Does this pop off like a cannon pinion?

IMG_20201116_194555.jpg.50450248e231e6f20bf232606b98edfb.jpg

I don't normally touch pocket watches, but you know how it goes, friends and family ask so politely if you'd just "have a quick look".

Many thanks, Ash.

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AshF WRT Addict

AshF

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23 minutes ago, jdrichard said:

Crap....I forgot that move this weekend

Hah, yeah, I watched your video, then I had the same problem.  I'll try a pin vice later.

Any ideas about the other side?  That setting cap on the centre wheel will stop the wheel from being removed from the bridge.

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jdrichard Distinguished Member

jdrichard

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19 minutes ago, AshF said:

Hah, yeah, I watched your video, then I had the same problem.  I'll try a pin vice later.

Any ideas about the other side?  That setting cap on the centre wheel will stop the wheel from being removed from the bridge.

What does the setting cap look like? Picture

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jdrichard Distinguished Member

jdrichard

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20 minutes ago, AshF said:

Hah, yeah, I watched your video, then I had the same problem.  I'll try a pin vice later.

Any ideas about the other side?  That setting cap on the centre wheel will stop the wheel from being removed from the bridge.

Just had a look. That should come out with the center wheel. 

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jdrichard Distinguished Member

jdrichard

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29 minutes ago, AshF said:

Hah, yeah, I watched your video, then I had the same problem.  I'll try a pin vice later.

Any ideas about the other side?  That setting cap on the centre wheel will stop the wheel from being removed from the bridge.

Did you like the video? And, I did complete the job and the little watch is running really well and keeping great time. Just need to install the crystal when it arrives.

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nickelsilver Distinguished Member

nickelsilver

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You want to give a quick smart tap right on the tip above the canon pinion, where the hand fits. This will knock the center pin through the canon pinion and start it out the back of the center wheel; this is usually enough to loosen the canon pinion and get it off, then the pin is a light friction fit in the center wheel. Usually on a watch like this you can do it without supporting the bridge side, but it's good practice to set it on a bench block or use a staking tool with a hole that will pass the square end of the pin.

 

As crown setting became more common this old system developed into the modern canon pinion everyone knows, but you will run into this system from the in-between time where there is no square and it's not immediately evident that it's a pin-through-center wheel arrangement. In cases where the center wheel is jeweled, invariably the bridge side of the pin will pass through the jewel, so you can remove the bridge. Do this, then support the center wheel on its pinion before knocking out the pin. The jewel will crack otherwise. Most of the time they are unjeweled though.

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AshF WRT Addict

AshF

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12 hours ago, jdrichard said:

Did you like the video? And, I did complete the job and the little watch is running really well and keeping great time. Just need to install the crystal when it arrives.

Yeah, I love your videos.  I like your narration and sense of humour, always a joy to watch.  Thank you.

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AshF WRT Addict

AshF

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Thank you very much guys.  All sorted now.  Once I understood the mechanics of the piece it was more obvious what to do.  I got it on my staking set and tapped it out, it was actually quite easy to move in the end.

A quick follow on question...  Since the centre wheel is friction fit (and doing the job of a cannon pinion) I guess it'll need a little grease right?  Just as you would a cannon pinion?

Thanks again everyone.

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