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vostok hair spring


Gearbox

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Hi all,

I've been having trouble with a vostok amphibia I recently bought. I've got a number of vostoks and they've been pretty much alright. This one though was running fast right from the off. It was gaining about 90 seconds every hour. I should of sent it back to Meranom but I couldn't be bothered with the hassle of packaging it back up and sending it back and then the long wait. Plus it's seventy quid watch, might of been different if it was a rolex or something like that.

I decided to open it up and have a look. I'd already stuck it on a time grapher app (I know they're not as accurate as the real thing) and it had picked up something wasn't right. As soon as I looked in I could see the hair spring wasn't looking right. It was bunched up, compressed on one side. Eventually I noticed one of the outer coils had hooked its self around the beat error adjusment stem. I carefully teased it off and the watch sprang back into normal life. I've worn it on and off the last few weeks and the watch has been exceptionally good. It's kept within about two seconds a day and then yesterday it started playing up again. wipped the back off and it was the same fault. Teased it off again and alls back to normal.

Has anyone had an issue like this before? I really don't want to start messing about with hairsprings as to be honest that could be beyond my skill set. I'm thinking maybe of getting a new balance unless there might be a fix that I could perhaps do.

Any help much appreciated.

Edited by Gearbox
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hi GB pretty new and I'm guessing here-have you checked for magnetism, dust, nicks or dents you might have missed? is it an overcoil hairspring or flat? is it concentric? check that regulator pins are not bent, loose or missing and their gap is correct and that the spring is running thru them, centered. are you able to regulate it? hairsprings are a whole different animal and skill unto itself. I shake my head even as I type this...I try to avoid them if i can and only tinker with junk ones, you know? good luck!

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I actually thought magnetism at first and checked it passing a compass over it but it was ok. I demagnetised it anyway. 

It definitely looks flat when you look edge on. I'll check again the things you mentioned and see if I spot anything. I've got a proper time grapher arriving this week so that might help pinpoint some things.

Thanks.

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3 hours ago, Gearbox said:

Hi all,

I've been having trouble with a vostok amphibia I recently bought. I've got a number of vostoks and they've been pretty much alright. This one though was running fast right from the off. It was gaining about 90 seconds every hour. I should of sent it back to Meranom but I couldn't be bothered with the hassle of packaging it back up and sending it back and then the long wait. Plus it's seventy quid watch, might of been different if it was a rolex or something like that.

I decided to open it up and have a look. I'd already stuck it on a time grapher app (I know they're not as accurate as the real thing) and it had picked up something wasn't right. As soon as I looked in I could see the hair spring wasn't looking right. It was bunched up, compressed on one side. Eventually I noticed one of the outer coils had hooked its self around the beat error adjusment stem. I carefully teased it off and the watch sprang back into normal life. I've worn it on and off the last few weeks and the watch has been exceptionally good. It's kept within about two seconds a day and then yesterday it started playing up again. wipped the back off and it was the same fault. Teased it off again and alls back to normal.

Has anyone had an issue like this before? I really don't want to start messing about with hairsprings as to be honest that could be beyond my skill set. I'm thinking maybe of getting a new balance unless there might be a fix that I could perhaps do.

Any help much appreciated.

BTW I just picked up a "gently used" Vostok Amphib and I love it. first one. 75 bucks and it came with this awesome stainless mesh band. mesh bands to me are hair assassins to my wrists but this one not a problem at all.  

20201021_212224.jpg

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This is odd. The only time I have ever seen anything like a watch suddenly  gaining time was from  over oiling. The lubricant migrates to the hairspring and the coils stick together  increasing the rate. Suggest that you remove the whole balance  cock and clean  it with naphtha.

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2 minutes ago, yankeedog said:

This is odd. The only time I have ever seen anything like a watch suddenly  gaining time was from  over oiling. The lubricant migrates to the hairspring and the coils stick together  increasing the rate. Suggest that you remove the whole balance  cock and clean  it with naphtha.

thinking that also, was wondering what it might be getting stuck or hung up on. see what the OP says...i would think he would have seen any gunk right away the first time he debugged it but he didn't say anything....

I bought a brand new monster snowblower, ready to challenge mother nature with her mood swings and heavy snow. 2nd time I tried it thing sounded like an old Model A with a bad cold...couldn't for the life of me figure it out. opened the air cleaner cover and low and behold Ratatouille and his 3 friends took up residence in the carb. Moral to the story:

I think he's got mice in his watch lol. gremlins. I hope he gets em. they're everywhere.

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6 minutes ago, yankeedog said:

This is odd. The only time I have ever seen anything like a watch suddenly  gaining time was from  over oiling. The lubricant migrates to the hairspring and the coils stick together  increasing the rate. Suggest that you remove the whole balance  cock and clean  it with naphtha.

But would that cause one of the coils to get caught on the beat error post. It's twice it's done it now but apart from that it runs within a couple of second a day. I think you might right and remove the whole balance and get a proper look at it.

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1 minute ago, Gearbox said:

But would that cause one of the coils to get caught on the beat error post. It's twice it's done it now but apart from that it runs within a couple of second a day. I think you might right and remove the whole balance and get a proper look at it.

time to break out the One-Dip.

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24 minutes ago, Gearbox said:

I actually thought magnetism at first and checked it passing a compass over it but it was ok. I demagnetised it anyway. 

It definitely looks flat when you look edge on. I'll check again the things you mentioned and see if I spot anything. I've got a proper time grapher arriving this week so that might help pinpoint some things.

Thanks.

timegrapher will help, yep. bought mine a few months ago. Love it.

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Just now, Gearbox said:

Been using a timegrapher app up till now. It's ok but a bit hit and miss. Hopefully this week the proper one arrives.

which one? the usual suspect that is out there? the 1000? thats the one I use. perfect for my little operation. and, they've dropped in price since I bought mine in the spring.

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1 hour ago, Gearbox said:

Been using a timegrapher app up till now. It's ok but a bit hit and miss. Hopefully this week the proper one arrives.

well Paul, sounds like you've got some tinkering ahead of you. now that you've got us all lathered up about it you'll have to let us know what you find. keep us updated.

-Mike

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3 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

Hi this type of problem can occur if the watch is worn during golf or any other activity where the arm incurs violent movement suggest   keeping it in the pocket for a week and see if it happens then, If it still occurs we need to re think.

It it happens again I'll try and video the balance or at least get some photos.

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Coil needs to expand as far as stud to get stuck behind it, if unlevel, outer circle of coil can pass beneath the stud, that much expansion usually occurs at high amplitude.

Otherwise it can be loose stud or coil pushed to the side that stud is. You might even see outer circle of the coil not concentric with next inner circle.

A visual inspection may suffice to see what happening but a vid tops other approaches of inspection.

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The coils on the left of center seem to be compressing much more than those on the right of center.  

The terminal curve seems to be running straight and true (as far as I can tell from this angle) between the pins. 

I don’t think it’s gunk; I think the spring is running oddly. Based on the way the reflections look, it’s as if it’s rocking in and out of flat as well, which I suppose could cause the terminal coil to jump out of the pins under certain conditions.  

Another video looking at the coil from the side would be good. This is a candidate for hard core spring manipulation. 

Last thought- is it possible the stud is lose somehow? Maybe the end of the spring rocking in the stud?

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Further to the above, coil as said is too close to stud, both 145degree angles at the bend should be widened by 20 degrees.

The problem with HS manipulate is you affect nearly all aspects( centricity, flatness, levelness  .....) as soon as you tweeze it specially at the bend, so you would need to simulataneously check and readjust all said aspects.

If you don't feel skilled at this, I suggest letting someone who does do it.

Even a new balance complete requires final touches when installed.

Regards joe

 

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I opened up two other amphibias I've got and the hairspring on both those compress more to the rear so I'm guessing this one is working as it should.  I've checked edge on and it's perfectly flat. I've also checked all things are tight and nothing is moving that shouldn't. I'm going to wear it non stop for the next few days and see if the outer coil jumps again onto the beat error post. If it does I'll post another vid and pics. Thanks for all your suggestions and help.

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