PT5000 movement reliability over the NH35?

[WarisAhmed]

Hey guys. I'm new here. My name is Waris. I'm from Kenya.

Just wanted advice between 2 watches that im about to purchase from aliexpress. I can only purchase one of these. Both have similar or equal build quality but different movements.  The watch from the Cronos brand having a PT5000 movement and the watch from San Martin having the NH35 movement

Both of them homages to the Rolex submariner. Each to their own, but i have no problem with homages and as a person who can justify spending up to a maximum of $200US per watch, the notion of "save to get the real thing" doesn't really apply to me with all due respect to all the readers out there.

Now being a person on such a budget of watches, ideally i wouldn't want to spend money re-buying/servicing a movement in 5 years time. I personally want my automatic watches to last at least 10 years if not more without a service and be robust and reliable (for the above mentioned reason).

I am aware that the NH35 can perform this very function for me hence i was just about to pull the trigger on the upcoming 11.11 sale for the San Martin (anyone that doubts the ability of this movement for my criteria, please input your feedback) BUT the cronos brand have come up with something very similar and with the PT5000 movement available for $199 on 11.11.

Bearing that in mind mates, kindly advise on which one to go for. Is the PT5000 reliable and robust as the NH35? will it get me through at least 10 years of service without needing a refresh? Or should i just go with the trusted movement on this one? I don't really mind going for the lower beat rate of the nh35 so that doesn't really matter to me

 

PT5000 from what i know is a clone of the ETA2824 movement, 28,800BPH and to quote, "HKPT brought their highest grade of PT5000 to Glashutte in Germany to have it's accuracy reviewed by the Chronometer Observatory (They couldn't get this done at COSC; the worlds best-known accuracy certificate system, as they only test Swiss movements). According to the China Horologe Association, the standard set by the Chronometer Observatory at Glashutte is the world's most rigid. The observatory has seven testing categories, and only allows a mechanical watch a deviation ranging from minus 3.8 seconds to plus 5.8 seconds within a day. This movement then went on to be China's first-ever watch movement to reach chronometer certification"

 

link to the san martin https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000421618850.html

link to the cronos https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33030086322.html?spm=2114.12010615.8148356.25.e1b859bd5C5nmx

 

I'd really appreciate all your input

[Watchtime]

Hello Waris, welcome to WRT...The first one seems to have a simple Seiko movement, imo the price of this watch is a bit steep. An alternative The Invicta Mako Pro Diver 8926OB is around $90, the Alpha Sub,

Model:  MA507G-SG2806-BLACK

Movement:  Miyota Calibre 8215 or Seagull TY2806 is around $100

The second watch has a PT5000 or H.K. Precision Technology caliber PT5000 is an ETA 2824-2 clone made in China, can be reliable but also can not...:)

If you go for a homage watch with a genuine Swiss caliber, that would last longer. Like a Steinhart, but cost are higher.

[WarisAhmed]

I completely understand what you mean by "the price is steep" 

I have considered the invicta pro diver though by the time I manage to mod it with a sapphire crystal with AR coating, change the bracelet for one with solid links, end links, screw links and a milled clasp, change the bezel insert for a ceramic one...the price would come to the same as the San Martin that you speak of (buying tools to modify being separate in costs) and give a stamped 2 year warranty. Those are the specs on the San Martin. Though San Martin has incredible lume so I believe it's worth the price.

There are watches like the Parnis and the Pagani Design with the same specs as the San Martin though bad lume, poor QC bad bezel action

yes I've heard the same about the PT5000, could be reliable or could not be.

well I can't really spend more than the $200 mark so the Steinhart doesn't come into play. I still believe there is value in the $200 mark and the NH35 and miyota 8000 series are still good reliable movements to have in watches that will last 10 years on average.

Thank you for your reply 

[Watchtime]

I agree on the value/quality in the $200 range, there are some great watches to get for that.

[Tudor]

I’ve worked, and scrapped, a lot of China made 2824 clones. (And one 3135 clone so far). 

I’d go with the SII NH 35 for a couple reasons. 
1) it can run 10 years without proper service, but will probably need to be replaced at that point. 
2) the 2824 clones are not as robust, but could be replaced with a Swiss movement when it fails. 
3) new NH35 is about $40 and new (Swiss) 2824 is about $200

So, for me, in your situation, I’d get the San Martin (also for other favorable details you appreciate) and save for another movement. Then when yours fails, deliver the watch and second movement to the watchmaker to fully overhaul it and reassemble. That overhauled movement should easily do another ten years, assuming it was cleaned and lubricated properly. 

A big problem with these (China) watches is cleanliness. Or lack thereof. And poor oiling techniques, if they aren’t just running dry. At least out of SII the movement is assembled and tested under clean conditions. Lubrication should also be ok, but suspect- I’d want to check it myself, but I can do that; you cannot at the moment.

Less risk with SII power. Global parts availability and any watchmaker can work on it. That’s my vote  

 

[clockboy]

Welcome to the forum Waris, Enjoy, sorry but not familiar with the calibers you are referring too but I am sure many here will have.

[WarisAhmed]

On 10/27/2020 at 2:00 PM, Tudor said:

I’ve worked, and scrapped, a lot of China made 2824 clones. (And one 3135 clone so far). 

I’d go with the SII NH 35 for a couple reasons. 
1) it can run 10 years without proper service, but will probably need to be replaced at that point. 
2) the 2824 clones are not as robust, but could be replaced with a Swiss movement when it fails. 
3) new NH35 is about $40 and new (Swiss) 2824 is about $200

So, for me, in your situation, I’d get the San Martin (also for other favorable details you appreciate) and save for another movement. Then when yours fails, deliver the watch and second movement to the watchmaker to fully overhaul it and reassemble. That overhauled movement should easily do another ten years, assuming it was cleaned and lubricated properly. 

A big problem with these (China) watches is cleanliness. Or lack thereof. And poor oiling techniques, if they aren’t just running dry. At least out of SII the movement is assembled and tested under clean conditions. Lubrication should also be ok, but suspect- I’d want to check it myself, but I can do that; you cannot at the moment.

Less risk with SII power. Global parts availability and any watchmaker can work on it. That’s my vote  

 

Thank you for all your replies. For sure it seems the sensible thing to do is to go with the San Martin.

I'd be as concerned as you about the lubrication of the movement, however this is a tad subdued as the manufacturer of San Martin watches houses the same production for watch cases in some swiss watches. There is a belief that their watches are a grade above what is usually available from AliExpress, or so it seems. 

But you make excellent points on when the movement has it, get a new one and slot it in 

[bklake]

I have a San Martin 6105.  Also a Sharkey, LTM and Steeldive.  It could be argued that the same person/people make all of these brands.  All are worth what I paid for them.  I think they are on par with a Seiko SKX in terms of quality and better than the Seiko 5 series.  I don't think they water test each one like Seiko does with the SKX.  One noticeable difference is that bezel, chapter, dials are all aligned correctly, unlike Seiko. 

The PT5000 is pretty new.  Based on the ETA2824.  I would expect it to need the same care and maintenance as the ETA 2824.  The NH3x is a workhorse.  I have some that are approaching the 10 year mark and there is no drop in performance yet.  I don't wear them everyday but they still start ticking as soon as I pick them up.  I put my oldest one on the timegrapher and the numbers are basically the same as when I first tested it.  I've had the timegrapher for 5-6 years.  I also have a 20 year old 7S26 that is going strong.  I don't see the need to service it yet.  It was worn daily for years.  The NH3x and 4R3x were based on the 7Sxx. 

I had the chance to take apart my LTM 62MAS homage due to a broken crystal.  It was clean inside and the case was well made.  I looked it over with a stereo microscope.  Other cheap Aliexpess watches were a different matter.  I could spot debris with the naked eye and were truly scary when I looked at them with the stereo microscope. 

[Makaveli961]

On 10/26/2020 at 11:24 AM, WarisAhmed said:

Hey guys. I'm new here. My name is Waris. I'm from Kenya.

Just wanted advice between 2 watches that im about to purchase from aliexpress. I can only purchase one of these. Both have similar or equal build quality but different movements.  The watch from the Cronos brand having a PT5000 movement and the watch from San Martin having the NH35 movement

Both of them homages to the Rolex submariner. Each to their own, but i have no problem with homages and as a person who can justify spending up to a maximum of $200US per watch, the notion of "save to get the real thing" doesn't really apply to me with all due respect to all the readers out there.

Now being a person on such a budget of watches, ideally i wouldn't want to spend money re-buying/servicing a movement in 5 years time. I personally want my automatic watches to last at least 10 years if not more without a service and be robust and reliable (for the above mentioned reason).

I am aware that the NH35 can perform this very function for me hence i was just about to pull the trigger on the upcoming 11.11 sale for the San Martin (anyone that doubts the ability of this movement for my criteria, please input your feedback) BUT the cronos brand have come up with something very similar and with the PT5000 movement available for $199 on 11.11.

Bearing that in mind mates, kindly advise on which one to go for. Is the PT5000 reliable and robust as the NH35? will it get me through at least 10 years of service without needing a refresh? Or should i just go with the trusted movement on this one? I don't really mind going for the lower beat rate of the nh35 so that doesn't really matter to me

 

PT5000 from what i know is a clone of the ETA2824 movement, 28,800BPH and to quote, "HKPT brought their highest grade of PT5000 to Glashutte in Germany to have it's accuracy reviewed by the Chronometer Observatory (They couldn't get this done at COSC; the worlds best-known accuracy certificate system, as they only test Swiss movements). According to the China Horologe Association, the standard set by the Chronometer Observatory at Glashutte is the world's most rigid. The observatory has seven testing categories, and only allows a mechanical watch a deviation ranging from minus 3.8 seconds to plus 5.8 seconds within a day. This movement then went on to be China's first-ever watch movement to reach chronometer certification"

 

link to the san martin https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000421618850.html

link to the cronos https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33030086322.html?spm=2114.12010615.8148356.25.e1b859bd5C5nmx

 

I'd really appreciate all your input

Hello

I may be a little late with the advice, but if you haven't made your mind up, go for the San Martin without hesitation. 

Reason beings:

•Better overall finish of the watch; the recessed endlinks are in style with the new Rolex watches. I believe only San Martin and Ginault have done this little yet crucial detail. Not to mention how it transforms the look of the watch and the wearability of it. Splendid.

•The bracelet finishing is simply superior

•So is the bezel feedback

• Better clasp

•The NH35 will assure you a service-free experience due to it's lower beat rate (I know every watch is unique, but imagine a perfect case scenario, the PT5000 is going to be moving/beating 33% more than it's counterpart which will be very noticeable after an extended period of time)

•PT5000 is a new market, it is yet to prove itself.

•The NH35A costs ~£20, I can only imagine how much it would cost/replace the new kid on the block that is the PT5000.

So yeah. While the PT5000 may offer a more eye pleasing experience with its 4Hz rate, the truth is the NH35 is the obvious choice here. The overall finishing of the San Martin, it's better QC and reliable movement trumps its smooth-ticking Cronos sibling (since they are allegedly coming from the same factory). 

Hope this helps if you haven't already picked it up, mine is sure on its way. :') 

 

Best wishes

 

[jdm]

11 hours ago, Makaveli961 said:

Hello

I may be a little late with the advice, but if you haven't made your mind up, go for the San Martin without hesitation. 

Just to remind to you as well to any new poster that we a have a dedicated section where it's considered polite for new members to introduce themselves first.

[WarisAhmed]

Thank you all for your wonderful advice! 

As suggested to me it's better I went with the San Martin with the NH35 and I did just that by ordering the black version of it on the 11.11 sale. I checked into Aliexpress everyday and picked up as many coupons and coins as I could and got my watch down to $159 which is great. 

Recently i won the blue dial version of the San Martin on the Horologique youtube channel and he very kindly sent it to me. The watch is very well built and has good bezel action, keeps good time, amazing articulation of the bracelet considering it is an oyster style bracelet. The lume is amazing 

 

But just one problem, the finishing of the edges of the whole piece is terrible. The case, bracelet and clasp have really sharp edges and wearing that watch for the first time quickly became a problem. I had red marks on the underside of my wrist in 10 minutes. Had to add some double sided tape to the clasp to make it wearable for the first day and got to disassembling it when I got home for a good file down.

 

I've decided to give this watch to my 15 year old brother as his first automatic watch as I am to receive the black version in due time (please let it be fast). 

 

Cheers to all that helped me, I hope my input was worth it

[Brian851]

Instead of buying a NH35 watch on AliExpress, I would buy an Invicta with NH35 for 70-90$ .  It is sold my local dealers and you can get easier warranty if it breaks.

 

[jdm]

2 hours ago, Brian851 said:

Instead of buying a NH35 watch on AliExpress,

Just FYI, on our friendly forum it's considered polite to introduce onesef in the dedicated section.