Hettich Clock

[Michael1962]

Ok. In between other things, I have been preparing the rear door of this clock. The original knob and latch item were riveted (staked?) together through a hole in the rear door plate.

My idea to repair this and to leave it so that it can be removed if required, is to drill and then tap both parts at the same time with a slight clearance in between them so that they don't bind on the rear door which is a bit thicker now after being painted.

I checked with the guys that I am getting some other stuff from, but they don't carry taps, drill to suit and the screws that I would require. Can anyone tell me if they know of somewhere that I can get these things? I was thinking of talking to my optometrist as well.

The hole in the latch part is 0.92mm. The boss around that hole is 2.3mm. I was thinking a 1.0mm screw about 5.0mm long with a 2.0mm diameter head.(No, the parts are not completed yet. Still some cleaning and much polishing to occur) 

[oldhippy]

Try the Internet or hobbyist shops. How about making one. 

[Michael1962]

At this point I am not sure how I would do that without a lathe to turn some steel down to the sizes that I want. I have seen a plate in a YouTube video with multiple holes in it with associated dimensions which looked to be a die plate. I have never seen one of those before. I also need to get hold of a table that shows the root diameter for different size screws so I can work out what 0.92mm might apply to.

Just did a quick internet search and found exactly what I am after from a shop I have already used for the pin vice that I bought.

[Michael1962]

Another question if I may.

What is the chance that the dial on my Hettich was not painted, but silvered?

Is it possible that it was indeed silvered?

[oldhippy]

I've just looked at the very first photo you put up of the clock. It doesn't show any signs of it being silvered. With silvered dials you normally see brass coming through the silver due to over cleaning the dial such as rubbing the silver to get it to shine. 

[Michael1962]

The dial was not always brass. In my wisdom after the rotten battery leak, I made the “smart” decision to Emery the dial back to brass. The dial was exactly like the one in the link from @watchweasol

On 11/1/2020 at 3:40 AM, watchweasol said:

http://www.mridout.force9.co.uk/ecw/hettich.htm#:~:text=Hettich&text=The Hettich mantel clock has,movement is a pin pallet.&text=Thus%2C as one part eof,move in the vertical plane    

Is the dial on that Hettich silvered or simply painted?

[oldhippy]

Looks painted. 

[Michael1962]

 Thanks @oldhippy

[Michael1962]

Just found another Hettich on ebay which would give me some spares if it can't be corrected. Also would give me the spring that holds the battery compartment which got destroyed on my one when the battery leaked.

Waiting to hear from the seller and may buy it from him.

[Michael1962]

On my way to buying a second one I think. Different dial, but same principle.

I now own two Hetticheses. (Hetti???)

Edited June 9, 2021 by Michael1962

[Michael1962]

Well I got this today.

It is an earlier clock than mine I suspect. Balance has some different screws in it. Both of the side plates in the body of the clock are painted steel and are brass plate on my clock. I don't recall the dial of my one being the same colour as this one, but at least I have somewhere to start now. Anyway, I now have a spare double helical balance spring and a spare movement. Also have the battery enclosure spring which had been destroyed on mine. As well as the four small screws on the top and other brass body parts.

On another matter, I had finally got the black paint all finished on the back door of the clock. Was using emery to polish it up and dropped the bloody thing. Grrr.

Edited June 16, 2021 by Michael1962

[watchweasol]

I have never had my hands on a Hettich clock but they look an interesting clock to work on,  Picked up two last week A 400 day Kern& sonne and a Smiths mantle clock total cost £60 , replaced the suspension on the 400day  its a worker and the smiths set up and it also works so in the que for the cleaning.  good luck with the Hettich.

[Michael1962]

Thanks @watchweasol.

I have changed my mind and I think that the clock above is actually later than mine. The quality of the case is less than mine, but the hairspring that is on the wheel that the lifted weight looks more refined. Where my clock case has brass plate, it has been replaced by painted steel plate. The bottom wooden base of the clock on mine has three holes drilled in a solid piece of wood for the clock movement supports etc., whereas the the one that I just got has a very small 3-sided wooden frame for the base.

I have started taking mine apart. Down to just the battery carrier to disassemble and the movement. The battery carrier has a steel pin going through the top plate of the career so that it can pivot for access. The pin has just been pressed to squash it flat to prevent it migrating out of the pivot. My though is to file the flattened area down so that I can remove the pin so that getting the parts chromed is much better. When I put it back together, I was thinking of just bending the filed area down at about 45deg. That would stop it coming out.

[Michael1962]

I can't believe what I have just noticed.

Can someone tell me what the name of the font that is used right here on the forum?

If you look at this, HETTICH, it looks perfect. Now I just need to know which font it is.

[RogerH]

Morning Michael, from what I can see the font is called Segoe UI (possibly Emoji) there are a few versions of it.

[Michael1962]

Thanks for that @RogerH.

I have a question for everyone, or anyone that has painted clock dials before.

I am trying to work out the best way to paint the dial without painting the numbers or chapter markers. That way I don't have to try and polish paint off them after painting.

1) I have thought about polishing the chapter markers and then coating with wax. Paint the dial as required, then remove the wax.

2) Scan the dial into my computer, add spots at all of the minute spaces on the file, then print that out (1:1), cut out the number and chapter markers and use a hole punch to remove all of the minutes markers, attach the printout to the face and then apply paint at each of the minute marker holes with dowel/pegwood or something like that in a colour slightly darker than what I will be painting the dial.

3) Get 'HETTICH' and 'Made in Germany' decals made at a signwriters and transfer those to the dial. 

Tada!

Yes or no? Or any other ideas?

[oldhippy]

Have you thought about masking. 

[Michael1962]

I did think of that, but am not sure whether the original colour went up the sides of the hour numbers and chapter markers. With the compound curves on the sides of the 3, 6, 9 and 12, I am not sure how successful masking would be.

I also though of painting the entire dial and then polishing the paint back off the hour and chapter markers. Again, polishing between the 1 and 2 at the 12 marker would be difficult.

[oldhippy]

I don't think there is any easy way. 

[Michael1962]

I have a question on the French Chalk thing for polished brass.

How long does it prevent tarnishing for?

I am trying to work out on my clock what was lacquered and what wasn't. All of the case components will be polished and lacquered. I am also going to polish all of the plates and gears from the movement. I cannot tell if they were lacquered looking at them. If I try to use Brass on them and it makes no difference to the appearance, would I be safe to assume that the part in question was lacquered?

After removing the double helical balance spring from the balance, I am thinking that it was not lacquered as there is not a lot of clearance between the collar at the end of the spring and the stem of the balance. It is possible that the bottom of the balance and the screws were lacquered and the stem not as it is essentially covered by the spring when in operation.

Appreciate any ideas/suggestions, methods for ascertaining whether something is lacquered or not.

[oldhippy]

It's a bit like asking how long is a piece of string. The only thing I can say and it's not very helpful is the french chalk of today is not as good as it used to be (then what is) so don't expect it to last for years. I good clean chalk brush will help keep it clean and only use it for chalk. You will soon know if the plates and parts are lacquered when you come to polish them a light film will start to be removed. Myself I wouldn't expect any of of the balance parts to be lacquered. 

[Michael1962]

Your last comment made me instantly think that I am an idiot. As if the balance part of the clock would have a man-made imbalance such as lacquering.

Shall now go and sit in the corner and write out 500 times;

"Think before you post, ya idiot!"

As far as French chalk goes, is this any good? I cannot find French chalk in good ol' Oz in a block as mentioned above and in other topics.

I just looked at the Cousins website and looked up French chalk. (damn site cheaper than the link I posted above) It also says it can be called soapstone. I already have some of that in the form of boilermakers chalk, but I cannot see how passing that across a soft bristled brush would deposit any of it onto the brush. It is too hard.

I have also found another website/definition which states that tailor's chalk is French chalk?

Edited July 3, 2021 by Michael1962

[HectorLooi]

51 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

The only thing I can say and it's not very helpful is the french chalk of today is not as good as it used to be (then what is) so don't expect it to last for years.

The French chalk which I got from Cousins recently is more like classroom chalk, which is calcium carbonate.

The French chalk that we used in dental school was totally different. It was softer and more like talc.

I still don't understand how French chalk works. Is it used as an abrasive to polish of any oxide buildup or does it actually coats the brass with an invisible layer of something? But it seems to work. The wheels of my 400 day clocks are all bright and shiny.

51 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Myself I wouldn't expect any of of the balance parts to be lacquered. 

Except that I got a Smiths floating balance clock that had it's floating balance lacquered by someone. 

I had to soak in alcohol overnight to soften the lacquer. But I still can't regulate it properly. With the balance weights all the way in, it still runs about 5 mins slow every week. I'll probably have to soak it again and pick at it with a brass tool.

[oldhippy]

Michael1962

If that is all that is available then that will have to do. It's rather expensive.   

[Michael1962]

You're not wrong. The price on Cousins is way cheaper. Way cheaper on Timesavers as well.

It would be way cheaper for me to get one of those. I can't find the stuff for sale in Australia. Unreal.