Benrus - How To Remove The Movement?

[vaguras]

Hello folks,

 

I  bought an old Benrus ref. 1345 from the bay, item arrived today. It has a solid case back that denotes also for the opening of the watch through the crystal. As you can see from the posted photo, I have already removed the acrylic crystal and the outer ring with the minute indices. But now, how do I proceed to remove the movement? Is there a specific way to remove the stem from the dial side?

 

 

Thanks in advance

 

Evan

 

 

 

 

[Geo]

It will more than likely be a two piece stem. You will have to grip the crown tightly and pull it out of the watch. Below is an example of a split stem.

[Vich]

Hello,

Just a word if it is a two piece stem.

I have a Roamer with a two piece stem and it is surprisingly hard to pull out. I tried a few times but chickened out until I finally decided that I had to put more force behind the pull than I thought would be needed for such a small joint. It did then eventually give way with no extraneous damage which quite frankly I was surprised at. I have heard that depending on the way the movement is held and the amount of slack in the tube it is sometimes possible to separate it by sliding one part out of the other but it did not work for me, you could try to see if there is any sideways play in a particular direction. All in all it is quite scary.

Cheers,

Vic

[Andyclient]

As Geo says it's more than likely a 2 piece stem , but just as a word of caution I once did a Tissot that was a front loader and had a normal stem.

The method of removing the movement was to remove the hands dial and calender works to then remove the stem then movement.

The dial just pushed on with no screws holding the dial feet.

I mention this as there looks to be a little lip on the dial at 6 o clock and wondered if that may be to lift the dial ?

But that was a Tissot who seem to like to make things complicated lol.

As mentioned hopefully it's a 2 piece stem 

[Mark]

The lip on the dial is for positioning the chapter ring. You will notice a corresponding groove in the ring :)

 

Before attempting to remove the crown (should come out with a strong pull), you really should replace the glass so as to protect the dial when you are taking out the crown.

[Geo]

I once did a Tissot that was a front loader and had a normal stem.

Hi Andy, the first watch that I refurbished was a Tissot Seastar 7 Visiodate, and like you I had to dig it out from the front of the case because it had a one piece stem. I discovered afterwards that it could be removed with a good pull. It didn't seem right to do it like that, but It has caused no harm to the watch. As I still have the watch, I must re-visit it and examine more carefully what is going on.

It would be good to hear Mark's comments on this, as Im sure he must have serviced a few. Here's a picture of mine for reference.

[Mark]

Hi Andy, the first watch that I refurbished was a Tissot Seastar 7 Visiodate, and like you I had to dig it out from the front of the case because it had a one piece stem. I discovered afterwards that it could be removed with a good pull. It didn't seem right to do it like that, but It has caused no harm to the watch. As I still have the watch, I must re-visit it and examine more carefully what is going on.

It would be good to hear Mark's comments on this, as Im sure he must have serviced a few. Here's a picture of mine for reference.

image.jpg

 

To remove the crown I usually give it a good pull with an old set of presto style hand removers.

[Geo]

To remove the crown I usually give it a good pull with an old set of presto style hand removers.

Even with the one piece stem?

[Mark]

Even with the one piece stem?

 

I have been known to do it yes. Obviously if there are absolutely no other alternatives.

Somebody mentioned lifting the dial to expose the keyless works. I have also had to do this on occasion, this is fine as long as the dial is friction fitted and not screwed in place.

[vaguras]

Thank you guys all for the information! I have not removed the crown-stem yet, but I have found out that the dial was loose inside!

Do you see the little screw that I have put in a circle? This one popped out after removing the glass!! Yes it is the screw for the dial foot on the bottom of it.

 

 

Fortunately the dial feet were ok, and I discovered that the second screw for the upper foot of the dial is inside (loose though), I have circled it at the second photo:

 

 

On this second photo I have set the stem to the hands position, and I can see that the stem is as you have already mentioned a split type. When I push the crown fully in, I can barely see the end of the male portion of it. I am afraid to pull  strong enough, I tried several times with my fingers but no results. I tried to ease the stem, by dropping inside some  isopropanol in order to unclog the old oils-dirt but no luck at all!!!

Can anyone post a photo with the correct setup of a pair of pliers (or presto hand removers as Mark proposed) in order to release it?

I do not want to make an error since I do not believe it colud be an easy task to find a replacement split stem!!

 

Evan

Edited February 25, 2015 by vaguras

[Geo]

I find this type of cannon pinion puller works quite well.

[vaguras]

Thanks Geo!!!

Unfortunately the hand or cannon pinion remover does not seem to work in my situation! As you can see from the second photo, the stem is already at the setting position nevertheless there is no clearance between the crown and the case!

Thanks anyway,  I have managed with a pair of pliers to remove it! At last!

More photos will come as I will try to service it! The seller said that the watch ticks and holds time but when I just put in on my timegrapher the truth was different:

10 ms beat error, 175 amplitude and 5 minutes forward per day...

[walterchildress]

The way I have found that works best is old dull sidecutter plyers.   flat side to the case and close slowly.  Walter

[Vich]

If there is any movement on the "movement" could you turn the crown so the stem junction is sideways on and rotate the stem apart ?

If not, and Walters solution which seems like a good possibility using a dial protector or bit of plastic to guard the case is not viable, I reckon you are going to have to bite the bullet and use pliers to pull hard.

 

May the brute force be with you

 

Cheers,

 

Vic

Edited March 2, 2015 by Vich

[JohnR725]

On some split stem watches you do not pull the crowd out you just turn them case over and if the split part is in the right position the movement will fall out. On other split stems if the case and or case tube is to close to the split part there is no room for it to open and pull out so pulling really hard on one of these will usually break the crown off.

 

Your photograph with the stem in the setting position it looks like the split part is too far into the case to slide out. So if you put it back into winding turn the movement over see if the movement will fall out. Then depending upon how tight the split part is holding the movement may not fall out it needs a little help.

 

 

[Vich]

I agree with John that it is infinitely preferable to get the thing apart without the use of force.  Although I have read of the stem separating as John says, my experience as a tinkerer is limited as I have only had this sort of stem on two watches and spent ages trying to coax them apart before resorting to the pull method.  Also after pulling them apart I "pushed" them back together as well without damage but I was at the point where alternatives were not available (another way to read this is I lost patience).  Hopefully the movement will drop away for you as John says though, definitely a less brutal method.

 

Donald de Carle in his book "Practical Watch Repairing" does cover split stems (page 281 in my issue) and says "place a watch bag(chamois leather or linen) over the button and, with the ordinary cutting nippers , grip between the button and the case(Fig 549), and carefully apply pressure as if about to cut off the pendant.  The button will come away quite easily and safely, damaging neither the case nor the button".  de Carle is a good guide for most things and a lot of forum members place great confidence in his advice, which though quite dated may be found to be contemporaneous with the watch you are working on.

 

One think I do note is that these older watches must have been made much stronger than their modern equivalents.

 

Cheers and good luck,

 

Vic