Jump to content

Dial feet repair - All techniques


Recommended Posts

Hi Check out this link   http://www.dirkfassbender.de/dial-feet-soldering-machine.html.   I build one of these and it works very well , there was a topic on the site regarding this subject.  The ones featured similar to the one I build for about £25 does the job and there is no harm to the dial surface. check out the search on site top right for the topics.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have tried it before. Tried to pulse weld a brass wire to a brass dial. The paintwork on the front got damaged. Maybe because I didn't use any heatsink. Also I wasn't using an Orion, just a cheap Chinese pulse welder. But it's a copy of the Orion, with a retracting electrode holder too. 

I also have to admit that I haven't had enough weld time with this machine. Probable need many more hours of practice before I attempt any real repairs. ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Watchweasol is correct. Because of the zinc in brass, it tends to burn rather than melt under many heating conditions. Better to solder it or use copper.

I've had one of those Chinese rigs for a while and really found it useful for the price paid. I could take in repairs that some other jewelers around here couldn't. I just needed a little more control and found a great deal so I scooped up the Orion. I'm excited to see just what its limits are. Because you can tailor the ramp of energy, you can supposedly get stronger welds because it allows the metal to cool slightly slower. That doesn't help with this application, but for prong replacements near heat sensitive stones and costume jewelry repairs it will be a godsend.

So as I understand it, the machine you refer to building is a resistance heating unit. This Orion has a function like that. I'm just going to find an old scrapper or two in my basement and do some experiments. If I find no success I'll build one of those. I guess that's the best way to learn in the end anyway.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

I Have an Orion 250i welder and have briefly looked into this.

I used some old tag water damaged dials. Using it in pulse mode, i found it did more harm than good so i put it down to the zinc content. i plan to try using tack mode with the below.

If i get time, i plan to dig out my old staking set and replace the punch guide with a delrin or similar non conductive one and my idea is to end up with a holed type punch (positive) that can clamp the foot into and the base (negative) that i can make attach a clamp for the back of the dial. Also, the beauty of using a staking set is it has centre punch for centering exactly where it was originally. One thing with the Orion, the power settings are precise and consistant and that should help with adjusting for different dial thicknesses.

I'm thinking the way forward is using tack mode and solder, with which type i don't know but i think in paste form will be easier. i still have a few dials to experiment on.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the comment!

I've found similar things in my experiments since this post, and I also really like the staking set idea.

I see that you're a new member as well, so welcome to the forum! I hope that it's as rewarding for you as it has been for many of us here. Great to have you aboard.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi  This is the machine I build it uses a 12v battery charger as a supply because it has an over current feature, Its quite simple also attached are examples of the solder joint and note the dial face is unmarked. So to do a quality job does not need a degree in  Neuclear science. Its just a simple adeptation of Dirk Fassbenders machins inspire by the one in Wesley R Doors book on Rettrofitting.  As mentioned before cost £25. and a few hours work.                

DSCF3453.JPG

DSCF3456.JPG

DSCF3457.JPG

DSCF3454.JPG

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Hector It is infact quite a simple yet effective design,  The power input through the two jacks at the back left +ve and -ve. The posative has an in line fuse and is connected to the jack (red) on the right into which plugs the carbon rod(salvaged from batteries) . The Negative connects to the post and table where the dial is fitted via a switch and a power indicator is fitted across the out puts.  So when the dial is on the plate and screwed down the dial wire is positioned in the top rail onto the dial with flux and a solder chip  the carbon rob is applied and the power swiched on.  The rod completes the circuit and an arc forms at the joint melting the solder.  It takes a little practice in determining the length of the power application.   If I can find the origional design I will post it. 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I watched the video last night. I noticed that the alligator clip was not connected to the circuit. Hence Mark had to use a tweezer to hold the copper wire and press down on the dial to complete the circuit. Also, should the piece of chamois leather be wetted to keep the dial cool?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Hector The method as I use it is that the post or clip which holds the dial is one half of the circuit and the carbon rod is the other half. So when the dial is set up you can protect the face from the crocclip teeth on the dial face, the other side of the clip contacts the surface of the dial.  The dial foot wire is prepared and held in contact with the dial, a lillte flux and solder chips or solder paste placed at the contact point,  then the carbon rod is introduced to the wire. The current flows down the wire creating an arc at the contact point and makes the joint, similar to arc welding. The knack is to watch the joint and as soon as the solder flows remove the rod and switch off the current, and the power.  The dial face will be unmarked and a good joint obtained. As per my previous post. The dial foot wire is the interface between the posative and negative contacts and can be held in place with whatever method you choose.  Some use a third hand to hold the wire in place others make a jig but the end result is the same.  Whether you use damp chamois or dry matters not as long as the dial face is protected from the crocadile clip teeth.   Hope this is clear enough If not I will try to take a set of pictures at each stage of the proceedings.           cheers

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, exactly. That's why I found it strange that in the video, there was no electrical connection to the crocodile clip. If you observe in the video, the wire was connected to the brass block where the dial is supposed to be screwed down. The electrical circuit was only completed when Mark pressed the dial foot wire firmly on the dial. I don't know if the machine was designed that way or the connecting wire had fallen off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

First, a Happy, (and above all) a Healthy New Year to everyone ?

Second, does anyone have any experience using the reaming tool that Mark uses in his Dial Feet Repair Video ? My experience is that the centering point broke immediately....that created the first problem. The second problem is that the reamer itself is located off center in the shaft and seems to be non replaceable. The third problem is that the shaft itself has so much side shake in its bushing to make forming a circular recess in a precise location impossible ! Maybe I was unlucky and bought a "Monday" tool....but I don't think so. Apart from the scary soldering tool does anyone know of an alternative to these (not so) cheap Chinese tools?

Cheers, Mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi WW, thanks for the reply. I did a search before I posted my query and the comments were interesting but I was hoping to hear from someone who actually uses one of these tools. It's early yet so I'll keep checking back.  It would be nice to hear from Mark of course.... but I doubt that will happen ?

Mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • A already know the size movement I have the problem is the dial a had purchased has a dimension 20.6mm wide a want to find a watch case that going to fit the dial perfectly 
    • Hi.  I would like to take issue here regarding battery driven , watches, clocks,etc. I will and do repair these clocks in fact I have sever al in my collection as well as the regular mechanical ones. I have one on my mantle piece over 60 years old tha belonged to my wife’s Aunt,  long gone Iam afraid and it has been cleaned etc and never missed a beat and is accurate. Every one has their preduices as regards Electrical /electronic Horology but I regard it as part of the progress time line of the art of Horology and to be treated as such. Like Darwin’s theory of evolution it evolved.  Two cavemen knocking rocks together and a shard broke off , looking at it he worked out if it was stuck on the end of a stick he would have a spear. Likewise his pal seeing what he was up to picked up a piece  and did the same, now that’s evolution. Some clockmaker decided to build a clock that ran with a battery and no spring to wind up and break, progress and both the mechanical and battery driven clocks evolved, the battery ones got better to the point that if it broke you changed the complete unit. Likewise watches did the same but both can be repaired by people who approach Horology with an open mind without preduice.  We all have our likes and dislikes bu I for one would never dismiss any technology because I don’t like it.   The mobile phone is a good example of modern technology at work as is the automotive industry. There buttons and switches in my car I don’t use because to me they are not nesessary but I still drive the car.
    • I haven't gone through all the reading of what it might be or not. The first thing I would do if nothing obvious stands out is replace the mainspring, you have to start at the source of the power. Nine times out of ten that is the problem.  
    • Haha. You're just in a wicked mood today John 😅
    • Heres my watch of today, a Smith 13'" RY . My missus bought me this for this Valentines day a bargain 14.99 with a reduction, the seller has occasional 20% off offers now and then so it was about 15ish with delivery. I love Smiths and i love bulleye dials, this is my first one. The watch arrived non working as stated and i knew what was inside and what would be against me, but i enjoy a challenge, we dont expect a lot if anything from pin pallet movements. A balance pivot was broken and i didnt have another staff but i did have another RY with a battered dial so i robbed the balance and tweaked it around to make it work apart from that mostly just a good clean and relubrication. Keyless works are pretty rough by design and the crown is a bugger to get in and out with the dial on, the setting lever hits the dial before it releases it, so a little mod is needed to help that along. Major problem was the pins on the lever were quite worn which make the old tg have a snow storm fit. Its a similar read for most pin pallets, these were brass as was the escape wheel. But perseverance is me, i didn't change the pins but i did spend some time dressing and polishing the worn areas which improved the trace a lot with some straightish lines 😅 and a beat error of .5 . Not sure what the lift angle should be on these and i Wasn't in the mood to work it out and who believes timegraphers anyway, but at the default 52° it runs with 260ish full 210 after 24 hours dial down , the verticals rates were pretty much all over place. So lets just put it in it's superlight aluminium case and see what happens. Been wearing it now for 3 weeks and it's consistently losing around 1.5  minutes a week winding each morning i think pretty good for an old pin pallet watch. I just love this dial, thanks wifey heres my Valentine's gift for yer sweetie x
×
×
  • Create New...