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NOS hairspring 180 degrees out of position


Question

Greetings all.  I've been working on a few things but one is a bit curious so I thought I'd report.  I snagged this non-running, but otherwise lovely little Elbon watch off ebay:

IMG_20200911_190817.thumb.jpg.c8350b2771674f5ca13b125195e292ba.jpg

I really like the style of the dial; was very excited when it arrived.  When I inspected inside, I noticed that the balance wasn't oscillating freely, and was very loose -- had a lot of end shake.  I quickly diagnosed the problem as a broken pivot on the balance staff.  Here's a comparison of the two pivots:

1356067142_ScreenShot2020-09-24at7_07_18PM.png.3d06cecffac5312814e1fb0bef0871e2.png

One is not looking great!  So I found a NOS balance complete online (for the exact movement) and ordered it.  This one should be straightforward, open and shut, I thought.

Well the part finally arrived from the Netherlands, after the usual Covid shipping delay, and I noticed some strange things.  First, it had a lot of little spots of blue-green corrosion, especially on the hairspring collet (brass -- perhaps the source), but I managed to clean that off.  Also the hairspring itself was sticking to itself in one place, and I had to spend a bit of time cleaning it with a brush and benzene.  Soaking it wasn't helping.  Then I put it side by side with the old balance and noticed that the position of the end of the spring (the stud) was 180 degrees different between the two.  See this picture (note the impulse jewel are both pointing south, though you can't see them):

IMG_20200924_184741_2.thumb.jpg.1b9443ab4af5477ebf2c94acd87b45a8.jpg

I did not even try to install the new balance.  This cannot be right.  I think I may try to just swap the hairsprings, though this will be a first for me.  I could try using razors as recommended by @Nucejoe.  The old hairspring looks a bit better shaped too, as it angles out to make contact with the regulator arm. 

What do you guys think about all this?  Shouldn't a new part have a correctly positioned hairspring, etc?

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4 minutes ago, rodabod said:

I think I have a spare cal 1002 which I could send you parts for, but I’m guessing you are not in the UK. 

That's very kind of you to offer.  I live in Germany for my work.  I guess the only thing I need right now is the regulator arm, which I can take of a donor balance cock (about 10Eur online from Italy via EBay).

Removing the lumpy marks worked beautifully!  Now the wheel is spinning:

 

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That looks good. I think my one may have a slightly different antishock setting, but the staff may be the same length. I can just post to you if you are in Germany using normal stamps. I will send you a message. 

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24 minutes ago, rodabod said:

That’s an early anti-shock setting. When you bought the balance complete, was it described as being for anti-shock in any way? Eg. “Inca”?

Re this, the balance was only advertised as N.O.S. for AS 1002.  Nothing about the intended jewel setting.

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Just now, gaber said:

Re this, the balance was only advertised as N.O.S. for AS 1002.  Nothing about the intended jewel setting.

Well, it appears to fit. Some staff lengths do not vary according to antishock setting. The pivot profiles can vary slightly, but don’t worry about that just now. 

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Loosen cock screw to see if it frees the staff.

The marks( guaged) lowers the jewels which takes out the end shake( free axial end play on staff) removing them like you say might be all you need to do, if still no end  shake,  gauging on the inner bound will furthur raise the jewel.

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2 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Loosen cock screw to see if it frees the staff.

The marks( guaged) lowers the jewels which takes out the end shake( free axial end play on staff) removing them like you say might be all you need to do, if still no end  shake,  gauging on the inner bound will furthur raise the jewel.

The marks were the cause.  I rubbed them down and now it spins freely and has a healthy bit of end shake.

Perhaps, years ago, someone tried to compensate for worn pivots by making those marks to the balance cock.  When I got it, the pivots were so worn that it wasn't enough anymore...

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2 hours ago, gaber said:

The marks were the cause.  I rubbed them down and now it spins freely and has a healthy bit of end shake.

Perhaps, years ago, someone tried to compensate for worn pivots by making those marks to the balance cock.  When I got it, the pivots were so worn that it wasn't enough anymore...

Glad to hear this and agree with you 100% , marks were made to compensate for short pivots.

Best wishes joe

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I’ve offered the movement below to provide spares. Can you check the type of anti-shock setting used on the dial side?

C3D5BDEB-F34B-4E5B-9143-B3EC10E29213.jpeg

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8 minutes ago, rodabod said:

I’ve offered the movement below to provide spares. Can you check the type of anti-shock setting used on the dial side?

Certainly.  Does the following show it well enough?

IMG_20200911_191405.thumb.jpg.843661babe4777dacf63b6be7a2844f3.jpg

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On 9/26/2020 at 11:03 PM, rodabod said:

No antishock on the dial side. That may be original. 
 

Let me check mine. 

Hey rodabod.  I just wanted to follow up on this.  Did you you have a chance to investigate your movement?  If it is not compatible, no worries.  There seem to be suitable parts for sale out there.  Thanks again.

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Sorry for the delay - I'm currently working a run of nightshifts. I will check it and send it in the post to you anyway.

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7 hours ago, rodabod said:

Sorry for the delay - I'm currently working a run of nightshifts. I will check it and send it in the post to you anyway.

OK, I completely understand.  Thanks again, and all the best to you.

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Here is the dial side. The end stone is sprung. Which makes me think that yours should have been too. Unless they were very cheap and only did the shock proofing on the bottom!

I will post it to you now. 

CC4F0619-F056-474F-984A-A87FEE9A2438.jpeg

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Posted (edited)

This kind of shock setting should provide a bit more safety than the one already installed in mine, no?  I have a mind to swap them as long as it doesn't change the fit of the balance wheel.

And thanks!

Edited by gaber
politeness
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Yes, I reckon this shockproof setup will certainly work more effectively than yours, especially as it appears to only be shock-proofed on one pivot.

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