Greiner Micromat Help/advice

[Ramone]

Hello Fellow members 

I have acquired a beautiful vintage greiner " Micromat " in excellent condition 

This is a smaller more compact version of the vibrograf 

Everything works perfectly except for the " recording bar" 

This is the Micromat with the " B" serial number So the ink is filled in this " recording bar" and not a ink reservoir 

The recording bar is however become dry with old ink and I cannot revive it or get it to work,  

I've read somewhere about " self printing / inking paper" rolls so that when this bar or head hits the paper, it would create a mark,  does anybody have any experience with this?  

Any advice would be greatly appreciated 

Thank you

I'll attach some pictures 

[JohnR725]

A unfortunate problem for paper tape timing machines is the paper. At one time when paper tape machines were more common than some of this other paper like for your machine may have actually been available were now it's only going to be the more common machines. This means possibly going to have to get creative and shrink your paper. In other words I've seen somebody with a saw actually slice a roll of paper with the thinner paper.

The first link is your classic paper that does not need a ribbon. You'll notice on the second link the reference to it being blue paper the same description as the first one indicating that it might actually be paper that doesn't need a ribbon. Some of the machines of your type or variations of that used a carbon paper type ribbon which of course some point time disappeared.

Notice the third link on the bottom they have a description which gives you the width of the various paper and tells you that some of them are discontinued like the paper found that the other company has? I suspect this is probably a truthful statement because with the electronic timing machine especially the cheap Chinese version paper for paper tape machines will eventually disappear.

Fourth full-length scroll down the page it's there two types

http://www.julesborel.com/products/tools-watch-timers-and-testing-watch-timing-paper/Blue-Timing-Paper

http://www.julesborel.com/s.nl/it.A/id.31369/.f

https://www.esslinger.com/watch-timing-machine-paper/

http://www.ofrei.com/page256.html

 

[nickelsilver]

I agree with John that finding some pressure sensitive paper should do the trick. I haven't used the Micromat, but did use the generation before quite a bit, however it used an ink ribbon. I do remember reading somewhere that when going to pressure sensitive paper on the Micromat you want to replace the ink plate with a metal plate.

 

All of Greiner's stuff that I've ever used has been absolutely top quality, and it's handy to have a paper tape machine even if you have a modern timing machine as they will pick up and print weirdo watches like cylinders, detent escapements, and duplex.

[oldhippy]

Looks like the machine I had back in the early 80's. I think you fill the pad by pulling the pad away and fill it by un-screwing one of the studs that pushes back on, clean the pad with  Ronsonal to remove the hard ink that blocks the flow. I just did a search on google and the paper rolls are easy to obtain. 

[Tudor]

Being thrifty, I was looking at these "vintage" tape machines quite a bit before purchasing a Chineseum machine. The issue I found with them was that they did not go up to high beat counts, so (common now) 28,800 was not covered. 

I never got so far as purchase and restoration of one. But, it's mechanical, so it can be repaired (unlike the thing I have).

[nickelsilver]

I've never seen a paper machine that couldn't do 28,800. They usually have a few buttons on the front that list common frequencies but if you check inside they show many corresponding frequencies, so even old ones that only show up to 21,600 they can do it.

Where they bite it is on really odd frequencies like 20222, 20944, that kind of stuff. And seems only JLC used those- maybe they had custom machines made to time in house? Though those were old watches from the 20s or so, I guess the old masters just did it by pure skill.

[oldhippy]

Here is one showing the frequencies.

[nickelsilver]

Here is one showing the frequencies.
http://d1v6dnm22vfd7d.cloudfront.net/monthly_2020_09/5e1c1a1fc48185455be020cb.thumb.jpg.bb0ea33b81fd4ab8ed7b77b785161406.jpg

Yes- it's basically a simple math problem of factors. Beats with the right shared factors will make a line.

[oldhippy]

Correct providing all is well with the movement. 

[Tudor]

That one OH pictured would be great! Even has the tuning fork option!

None in my price range were so comprehensive as that. Much older I guess.

[praezis]

18 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

Where they bite it is on really odd frequencies like 20222, 20944, that kind of stuff. And seems only JLC used those- maybe they had custom machines made to time in house? Though those were old watches from the 20s or so, I guess the old masters just did it by pure skill.

Must be so, TMs appeared in early 1930 years, like this "new" Siemens & Halske timing machine:

or this one:

On 9/23/2020 at 11:10 AM, nickelsilver said:

and it's handy to have a paper tape machine even if you have a modern timing machine as they will pick up and print weirdo watches like cylinders, detent escapements, and duplex.

Not needed, if you use the right modern stuff. PCTM / PCZW can test those easily, including tuning fork watches .

Frank

Edited September 24, 2020 by praezis

[Ramone]

Thanks Guys for all the valuable information and I'm really sorry for the late reply,  I was out of town for the week 

Oldhippy - it's exactly like yours from the 80s, open up the small screw then top up with ink 

However I've just ordered the self printing paper from Cousin'sUK 

Was around 10 pounds,  

Thanks John for the links,  

Thank you Tudor and nickel, praezis for the history :)

I'll post up pictures when the self printing paper has arrived,  

Hopefully it would work fine and I'll have a vintage piece of watch timing history

Yourls information is invaluable and I've learnt so much from the forums 

 

[Ramone]

On 9/23/2020 at 7:56 PM, Tudor said:

That one OH pictured would be great! Even has the tuning fork option!

None in my price range were so comprehensive as that. 

That's the one I'm having trouble with, the Micromat

[Ramone]

On 9/23/2020 at 12:17 PM, oldhippy said:

Looks like the machine I had back in the early 80's. I think you fill the pad by pulling the pad away and fill it by un-screwing one of the studs that pushes back on, clean the pad with  Ronsonal to remove the hard ink that blocks the flow. I just did a search on google and the paper rolls are easy to obtain. 

Thank you,  have you ever used any other ink other than what Griener provided to fill the cartridge?  

I'm thinking probably the previous owner used the wrong ink which was like ' glue ' 

[Ramone]

On 9/23/2020 at 8:52 AM, JohnR725 said:

A unfortunate problem for paper tape timing machines is the paper. At one time when paper tape machines were more common than some of this other paper like for your machine may have actually been available were now it's only going to be the more common machines. This means possibly going to have to get creative and shrink your paper. In other words I've seen somebody with a saw actually slice a roll of paper with the thinner paper.

The first link is your classic paper that does not need a ribbon. You'll notice on the second link the reference to it being blue paper the same description as the first one indicating that it might actually be paper that doesn't need a ribbon. Some of the machines of your type or variations of that used a carbon paper type ribbon which of course some point time disappeared.

Notice the third link on the bottom they have a description which gives you the width of the various paper and tells you that some of them are discontinued like the paper found that the other company has? I suspect this is probably a truthful statement because with the electronic timing machine especially the cheap Chinese version paper for paper tape machines will eventually disappear.

Fourth full-length scroll down the page it's there two types

http://www.julesborel.com/products/tools-watch-timers-and-testing-watch-timing-paper/Blue-Timing-Paper

http://www.julesborel.com/s.nl/it.A/id.31369/.f

https://www.esslinger.com/watch-timing-machine-paper/

http://www.ofrei.com/page256.html

 

Thanks for the valuable information 

I've ordered a roll of 36mm ( to fit the machine)  self printing paper 

Hopefully the hammer hits hard enough to make visible marks

[oldhippy]

 Mine came with a small bottle of ink for that machine. You would be surprised how little ink that machine will use.  

[pireorosso]

Hi Ramone, I have the same issue with the same machine. Mine is actually an mm2.  Did the self inking paper solve the problem for you?

[Philipjw]

you can get these rolls easily most supermarket's use them,  you can get them off ebay only problem is there too wide, put them in a lathe and with a very sharp knife cut them down to size problem solved.