Jump to content

Old Swiss movements

Mr0ldschool

By Mr0ldschool
in Watch Repairs Help & Advice

 Share

Recommended Posts

Mr0ldschool Member

Mr0ldschool

Posted
Posted

I have a pair of nearly identical Swiss movements from a company called LD Seine from Locle. Owing to the lack of any information to be found, I consider them members of the enormous body of generic Swiss watches. Since they are both key wind, key set, I'm inclined to think they date to somewhere in the vicinity of the 1860's, but I'm no expert. They actually both keep pretty good time, but I only have one good case between them. They do both have issues though. The first one I bought needs to be fully taken down and lubed. It will keep good time for a few hours then just stop. If you restart it, it may run for a few more hours or stop again pretty quickly depending on how it is feeling. If you listen while it is running, it sounds squeaky, so my impression is that it needs to be lubed.

The second one looks significantly cleaner to start with, having an almost gilt look to it, but after 6 or 7 turns to wind it, the mainspring slips and you have to start over. As such, you get maybe 8 or 9 hours and have to wind it again. No random stopping though.

 

I wanted to hit the easy button and just swap the barrel and its bridge dirctly from the first to the second, but the bridge has a locator pin in the wrong place and the screw holes are slightly different too. So then I thought perhaps I can move the barrel from the first bridge to the second. The problem I have at this point is that the barrel is held fast to the winding arbor and I can't see how to separate the two. I'm hoping someone here knows how they are held together and can point me in the right direction as to how to do this step. The last thing would be to try to find a replacement mainspring and try to do a better job anchoring it in the barrel, which I'm not totally against, but that still will require the arbor to come off. Any ideas? In all photos, the first one is on the right.

I hope somebody can show me what I'm missing.

 

Thanks!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200921/e38ed9d86f2267bcf0f8184dc994460b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200921/8444ea69bdc57835bc7835b6a98804e3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200921/4445c2759bf108af1abe7a78a8fcbf0e.jpg

 

Sent from my LGUS992 using Tapatalk

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
jdm Distinguished Member

jdm

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Mr0ldschool said:

I hope somebody can show me what I'm missing.

I think that if you could post clear pictures for each of the issues you are having others would be in a much better position to offer help.

Edited by jdm
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mr0ldschool Member

Mr0ldschool

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Here are the arbors on the bridge side. There had been a piece that covered the arbor wheel and was held down with four tiny screws. Removing it didn't have any change in the bond between the arbor and the barrel, and in fact only one movement still possessed it.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200922/9db4f75f8d7b32f0704d910279f1adce.jpg

Sent from my LGUS992 using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites
JohnR725 Distinguished Member

JohnR725

Posted
Posted

I'm guessing the problem is you're using Tapatalk Whatever the heck that is and instead of attaching pictures from your folder of your hard drive it's attaching links of where the folders of Image location. Occasionally because I feel like being a nice person and I wanted to see the pictures there down below. You might look into a different app that lets you actually attach pictures rather than links.

As far as swapping parts go because the age of the watches their almost custom-made's swapping parts really isn't the best approach.

Because of their age lubing would be nice but cleaning before you Lube would be better.

Then the word of the day for you to learn is suspended barrel.  that term sounds vaguely familiar? It's amazing what you do if you do a search of the messageboard there's probably more references but this one looked vaguely familiar like of seen it before?

https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/14947-mainspring-barrel-not-secured-on-one-side/

mystery file three.jpg

mystery filed to.jpg

mystery file one.jpg

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mr0ldschool Member

Mr0ldschool

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I post on numerous message boards with Tapatalk and it doesn't do that on anu other ones, so I'm disinclined to think that is the problem. I will have to dig into the settings to see if I can find an answer.
And to answer your question, no "suspended barrel" does not sound familiar. Thank you for pointing it out, but expecting me to know the terms I'm looking for before asking what they are is putting the cart before the horse. I'm just learning this new hobby.

Sent from my LGUS992 using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mr0ldschool Member

Mr0ldschool

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Looking at the other thread, it looks like what you're saying is that the winding arbor is threaded onto the inner arbor, and both sides do have square shapes which seem to support the notion.  Unfortunately I don't have anything small enough to safely grip the tiny inner arbor. I was able to get the mainspring to come out, however, by unseating it from the peg that it is held by on the arbor and then gently letting it out until it was fully unwound. It is a basic spiral mainspring.  The inside of the barrel only has pegs to hold both ends.  The other barrel seems like it has a t shaped peg or possibly a very short screw to hold the outside end.  I don't know if this means damage, or if it was designed this way.  I will upload some pictures shortly.  I'm working on transferring them from my phone to my computer...

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mr0ldschool Member

Mr0ldschool

Posted
  • Author
Posted

In the first picture, I've circled the "peg". It has no ability to hold down the end of the spring, shown in picture 4, when it has a few turns on it.  It simply lifts off.

The second picture is a closeup of what looks to me like a tiny slotted screw holding down the other spring.

The barrel in the first picture also has two holes that I will show in subsequent pictures, which look like either previous mounting places, or potential ones.  I'm open to suggestions about the best way to proceed.  Does anyone sell the type of screw that would do this job?  Would an "S" type spring hold in place better by wanting to press outward against the barrel at the end?

Thank you all for taking the time to look at this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
 Share
Go to topic listing


  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Hawaiikook808
      Balance spring fell out of regulator pin.

      By Hawaiikook808 · Posted

      Thank you so much, Hector and CJ. I appreciate the tech sheet and the video. Gasp, I think I will make the attempt. What's the worst that can happen? I think there may be a new balance complete in my future, though.  I'll update the post and let you know the result. R, Frank  
    • Waggy
      Movement holder made with 3D printer

      By Waggy · Posted

      So here is the new base (v 2.1), I made it so that the base will fit over and swallow the stump of the hand pusher tool (or at least my clone of the tool), I also reduced the OD of the bottom skirt a little as it looked/felt a little large, here are a few pictures and the fake .pdf file which you need to convert to .zip once downloaded.   The cut-out seen on the below image on the bottom of the base should swallow the OD (40 mm, +0.1 mm tolerance) of the stump and the height of the stump 9.5mm (measured to 9.1mm, but rounded to 9.5mm) - let me know if this works for your tool.   Note, I think you may need to print supports for the new internal shelf created? Here is the fake .pdf for just the FreeCAD base file and 3mf files Modular Movement Holder.pdf Here is the fake pdf for complete set of the new base and ring FreeCAD/3mf files: Modular Movement Holder base and ring v 2.1.pdf However, I'm wondering how often you could use this feature, adding the dial usually increases the OD of the movement, so you would need a new (larger) adapter ring tuned to the OD of the dial and I wouldn't like to grip the dial in any kind of movement holder if It could be avoided for fear of damaging it. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you?
    • HectorLooi
      Balance spring fell out of regulator pin.

      By HectorLooi · Posted

      Hi Frank, you have dived headlong into the deep end. Hairspring work has to be the scariest thing a newbie has to tackle. Your hairspring appears to be bent and just putting it back into the regulator would not allow the balance to work properly. It might start oscillating but the performance would not be good. The proper thing to do is to unstud the hairspring, remove the hairspring from the balance, reinstall the hairspring on the stud carrier, reshape the endcurve and centre the collet to the balance jewel hole. This challenge would either make you or break you. Hope that you will be able to fix your watch. Welcome to the world of watchmaking.  Watch this video. It think it'll give you an idea of the task ahead. From your 1st photo, I think you have a etachron type stud. Let me see if I can find a video on how to remove it from the arm.
    • Curare
      Balance spring fell out of regulator pin.

      By Curare · Posted

      Have read of the Tech Sheet attached on the balance section page 12. It may be bent but until you reposition it back in the regulator pins you'll never know. Cheers CJ 4R35B_4R36A.pdf
    • Hawaiikook808
      Balance spring fell out of regulator pin.

      By Hawaiikook808 · Posted

      Aloha All, My Seiko 4R35B movement stopped working today. Upon closer inspection, it looks like the balance spring came out of the regulator pin. This is my first time working on a balance. Any advice on how to get this spring repositioned (back to normal)? I'm pretty sure that while adjusting the beat error on this movement, I must have turned the stud (I didn't even know they turned), and the spring eventually fell out.  Will the spring go back to even spacing when it's back in the pin, or does it look bent? Thanks, Frank  
×
×
  • Create New...