Starter tools and watch repair kits

[Michael1962]

Hi everyone, 

I did some searching on WRT but haven’t been able to find anything really. 
After speaking to a company here that supplies tools and parts to the industry, they suggested that I buy a cheap kit from the internet (I ended up at Esslinger.com) in case I find that watch repairing is not for me. Rationale was that I wouldn’t have spent a whole bunch. 
My concern is that buying cheaper tools can cause you to become frustrated due to the quality.
So in short, does anyone have any sort of idea with regard to these kits?

[jdm]

Is not like there is much alternative unless you are OK to spend big money.

A Chinese kit is OK to open some (but not all) watches, change batteries, straps, and little more, (but not closing tight snap backs) can be $15 - $25 and worth that. The equivalent Swiss "quick service" is GBP 155,  certainly overpriced for the little  it delivers, still no press or snap-back tool in there, all it takes is a current Swiss watch for sorely missing having these.

The recommendation you have been given is the correct one, find first how much really watch repair takes you in before spending big money.

Remember that is the person that does the job not the tool, although there are many times where the specific tool is needed, sometime it can be made. A poor tool plus beginner's inexperience is a recipe for damaging the watch, let alone frustration. At the same time it happens a lot that beginners break perfectly working watches with perfect tools.

You will hear again and again "buy the best tools you can afford", but in practice that often that means "buy expensive tools", there is a lot of "tool adoration" in watchmaking.

[diveboy]

try labanda or AJS, both Australian based suppliers.

[Michael1962]

I have been trawling through both of those as well. There is also a third that I know of.

Australian Watch & Clock Supplies.

With not being able to travel to Melbourne due to all the restrictions, I can't go into any shops to have a look at things and say "Right. This bundle of tools will do me."

Where I live, I would suggest that the most precise tool that I could be would be a ball peen hammer.

[jdm]

17 hours ago, Michael1962 said:

With not being able to travel to Melbourne due to all the restrictions, I can't go into any shops to have a look at things and say "Right. This bundle of tools will do me."

Surely you aren't the only one. The age of brick and mortar watch material houses is gone to not ever return. The last time I visited one was the week they were closing down, that was in an EU country capital BTW. No big loss, they didn't even had much stuff anyway.

Now everyone buys online and if possible gets an idea first using forums like this.

Edited September 15, 2020 by jdm

[Mark]

On 9/14/2020 at 10:22 AM, Michael1962 said:

Hi everyone, 

I did some searching on WRT but haven’t been able to find anything really. 
After speaking to a company here that supplies tools and parts to the industry, they suggested that I buy a cheap kit from the internet (I ended up at Esslinger.com) in case I find that watch repairing is not for me. Rationale was that I wouldn’t have spent a whole bunch. 
My concern is that buying cheaper tools can cause you to become frustrated due to the quality.
So in short, does anyone have any sort of idea with regard to these kits?

I'm not a fan of kits as most that I have ever seen tend to be limiting or poor quality. The high quality kits tend to be aimed towards strap and battery changing/removing links and general after sales rather than on-the-bench watch repairing.

I did create a blog post with some essential "Day 1" tools that are advisable to have on hand when you are creating your tool kit and you may find that useful. https://www.watchrepairlessons.com/2019/09/30/essential-day-1-tools/

Perhaps you could use that as a guide - all of these tools are readily available from many different online sources such as Cousins UK, eBay, Amazon etc etc.. 

There is also a PDF I have made available which may help you decide on your Day 1 lubricants kit which you can download here: 

 

I hope this helps.

 

P.S. - Moving this thread to the tools section

[Michael1962]

Oops. Sorry about that Mark. I didn't scroll far enough down the homepage when I started this.

Bit tragic that, when you consider that I am a Mod on another UK forum. 

[KarlvonKoln]

I am learning about tool quality as I go along also.  I agree with the others on this: good screwdrivers are a must.  Good brass tweezers will be used often.  Generally, the better the case knife is made, the easier it is to use.  Definitely get a demagnetizer at some point, for both movements and tools.  I could probably mention more but the veterans on this forum have posted so much helpful information already. Sometimes the best tools are not always the most expensive; that does occur. And often, getting a more expensive tool is cheaper than buying five crappy ones. Digging through the posts on tools is worth the effort.

[lobby]

Hello, I am a watch enthusiast and have always been interested in the mechanics of watches.  I have a drawer full of old soviet watches that no longer function and I would like to learn how to fix them.  I do not have any appropriate tools to do so.  Is there a recommended kit that is recommended on this forum?  The kits I see available on amazon look a bit cheap, but I also dont want to shell out for a bergeon kit quite yet.  Excited to dive into this hobby!

[Tudor]

Welcome to the forum.

Have a look at what has been suggested in this thread, and also look into some soviet watches being repaired/restored here on other threads, That would give you a very specific listing of the tools you must have to do a service on one.

[watchweasol]

Hi Before shelling out your hard earned dollars on tools  read the attached document by DrG one of our contributors. I gives a comprehensive list of reccomended tools etc.

1612608791_ToolsfortheHobbyist.pdf

[Tudor]

I forgot about that- great post!

[Jarle]

Before i start whit Marks beginnercourse, which toolsshould i buy?

[Nucejoe]

Welcome to the forum.

This topic has extensively been covered before, try the sesrch function.

[Nucejoe]

Some relevent discussions.

https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=46347

 

[Tudor]

Welcome, and enjoy the course with Mark!

[PTricky]

Hello!

I'm new to watchmaking and I'm really excited to get into this hobby in the new year. I've been an enthusiast for a while and I'm also mechanically inclined - I think there's a lot of crossover between car guys and watch guys, I'm one of them

I'm looking for a bit of help with getting started. I've done a bit of lurking on the forum already for advice for first-timers and tried to apply that to my buying strategy, I'd love to know what everyone thinks. See below for a snip of my shopping cart. I already have a cheap movement holder, case knife, opener, loupes, tweezers, and some other miscellaneous things. I just want to get started. For now I'm trying to keep the quantity of tools down and the quality up so if there is something essential that I'm missing please tell me!

I also have a couple of general questions (having never taken one apart before):

How do you keep track of screws?? I hope that's not too much of an obvious question but I can already see myself cross threading something or putting something in the wrong spot.

For my first teardown and buildup I wasn't planning on doing any cleaning or oiling. Is this a bad idea? My reason is simply to keep my scope small and not have to buy expensive oils and cleaning supplies. 

My first victim is going to be a Adolf Schild 1194 simply because I have it already, it works, and it doesn't have any complications. I haven't found any technical guides yet so for now my plan is to just record the breakdown, be careful and patient, and see what happens! 

Thank you all in advance for your help. Wish me luck!

 

 

[Klassiker]

There is a lot of good information already on this forum if you use the search function. I think Mark in person has posted in the subject. I guess you have already done some research to compile the list you have so far.

To address your specific query, you are missing some kind of magnification from your list (unless you are young and have good eyesight). You are buying top-end equipment from the start, which is a good strategy If you have the funds, but then I don't follow your logic on saving money on cleaning and lubrication. It is essential to keep your watch running well, and basic cleaning fluids (lighter fuel) and oils (low viscosity, medium viscosity, grease) are available. I would choose different tweezers (pattern 2 in steel, but I use 1AM in brass most of the time) and you will need finer screwdrivers than 1.0mm for wristwatches.

AS movements are good to work on. They were designed to be serviced. You might struggle with the size to begin with. In that case, get yourself something larger to practise on. See Mark's beginner course.

Good luck!

[PTricky]

3 minutes ago, Klassiker said:

There is a lot of good information already on this forum if you use the search function. I think Mark in person has posted in the subject. I guess you have already done some research to compile the list you have so far.

To address your specific query, you are missing some kind of magnification from your list (unless you are young and have good eyesight). You are buying top-end equipment from the start, which is a good strategy If you have the funds, but then I don't follow your logic on saving money on cleaning and lubrication. It is essential to keep your watch running well, and basic cleaning fluids (lighter fuel) and oils (low viscosity, medium viscosity, grease) are available. I would choose different tweezers (pattern 2 in steel, but I use 1AM in brass most of the time) and you will need finer screwdrivers than 1.0mm for wristwatches.

AS movements are good to work on. They were designed to be serviced. You might struggle with the size to begin with. In that case, get yourself something larger to practise on. See Mark's beginner course.

Good luck!

Thanks very much for the input! I've got some cheap loupes from Harbor Freight which I was going to use for magnification. I have 2x, 3x, 5x, 7x, and 10x. 

Regarding cleaning and oiling, I was thinking just to put those purchases off for a bit and try to focus on the breakdown and buildup a couple of times before I finally clean and lube everything. Though I suppose it doesn't give me much benefit to skip that step for the purposes of learning. 

Thank you for the screwdriver tip tip - I wasn't sure what sizes to be looking for. I thought I saw a post say that 1.0-2.0 was a good set to begin with but maybe I misunderstood. 

Is tweezer style choice largely dependent on preference? The business end looks very similar between style 1 and 2 to me. Is your more frequent use of brass due to magnetism or softness of the metal or both? 

[Klassiker]

So, first of all, apologies for not reading your post properly. You already mentioned the loupes and a few other tools.

Keeping track of screws: also covered in many other threads. Experts just know what goes where. The rest of us put components in their functional groups, together with the relevant screws, in separate storage compartments and photograph them for later reference. You cannot take too many photos as a beginner. Cross-threading is not really a danger, but mixing up left- and right-hand threads is. The screws with three slots are always left-hand. Sometimes the crown-wheel screw isn't marked, but is almost always lh. Usually, if you get things mixed up you can work out which screws go where, e.g. thread diameter, length, flat head or countersunk, the bridge you want to fit needs three screws, and you have three identical ones left, that  kind of thing.

Screwdrivers: lots of differing opinions, all valid. My 1.0 and 1.2 get  the most use, but I have down to 0.5 and up to 3.0 in different sets, and use them all occasionally. Many members have several overlapping sets and shape the blades to fit different slot widths. A nice snug fit is important to prevent damage to the screw head and slipping out. If I was beginning again I'd buy a budget set of 9 or 10 sizes (Cousins have an own-brand set which I've seen recommended) with replacement blades, and then a sharpener set (simple rolling holder and stone) for the same money as your Bergeon set.

Tweezers: very personal. I have found that brass grips better and doesn't leave as many scratches, so thats why I prefer them for general use. They need more care though, as it's easier to damage the tips, and they wear faster, so need re-dressing more often. A good-quality set is essential. You can't go wrong with Dumont, and I cannot recommend cheaper alternatives. In steel, pattern 2 is slightly more slender than 1 but still sturdy enough. At the tips they will be very similar.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tudor]

From your list above, I would NOT get the Rodico "premium". get the regular blue/green stuff. The gray "premium" is very sticky and it pulls apart like bubble gum. I tried one piece (glad I didn't get a case) and I NEVER use it. Useless waste of money.

[PTricky]

Thanks so much for the input, guys

@Klassiker I can see how a bigger range of screwdriver sizes would be helpful, have you used the cousins set before? I've seen it so many times on this site not to skimp on screwdrivers and to just get the best that I can. Is there any wisdom in buying a few separate screwdrivers to supplement a set? 

@Tudor Thank you for the warning about the premium rodico, this is exactly the type of thing that I would have no way of knowing and would make my first experience that much more difficult.

 

[Tudor]

No problem! We have to look out for each other. 

[Klassiker]

4 hours ago, PTricky said:

I can see how a bigger range of screwdriver sizes would be helpful, have you used the cousins set before? I've seen it so many times on this site not to skimp on screwdrivers and to just get the best that I can. Is there any wisdom in buying a few separate screwdrivers to supplement a set? 

The advice people give about "always buying the best you can afford" is in my opinion a bit glib. Sure, if you can afford the absolute top of the range you will usually be rewarded with top performance. If you are a wealthy individual, you probably don't mind paying top prices. It gives peace of mind if nothing else. Could you get the same (or very similar) performance for less money? Usually, in my experience, yes you could. Can you get fit for purpose tools for less? Almost certainly.

That said, I haven't used Bergeon or Horotec screwdrivers. Maybe I'm missing out on something. I haven't used the Cousins ones either, but I am sure they will work at least as well as the ones I have, which I am very satisfied with. The thing about screwdrivers is, the potentially expensive part (the body, or shaft with the rotating cap on the end) doesn't contribute as much to the performance as the relatively cheap blade. It is crucial to use a blade which fits the slot of the screw. If you don't have that, then you will damage the head of the screw, the surrounding parts and possibly the blade. Even with the cheapest screwdrivers, this fit is down to you, not the manufacturer.

My "best" set is from Beco Technik GmbH (0.5/0.6/0.8/1.0/1.2) and cost under 40 Euro with anti-magnetic blades from uhrenwerkzeuge24.de.That was a mistake, as they are much too soft for general use. I quickly replaced the blades with some good quality steel ones. The bodies have a rotating plastic cap with a plain bearing and are colour-coded for size. Beco sell a set of seven with steel blades, 0.6-2.0mm for under 40 Euro, and that is the set I should have bought in hindsight. This size range is more or less ideal. I also have a set from Holex (0.9/1.2/1.8/2.3/3.0/3.5) which are very basic, all-chrome bodies and non-replaceable blades, but I trimmed them up and even they work fine. I use the 1.8 and the 2.3 quite often.

[DanteFalcioni]

Was just given the three watches today (seen below) by a family member, all not running and all needing some cosmetic work.

The Timex on the very right is a manual wind and it doesn’t work. This marks the first of my projects that isn’t a quartz movement that just needs a battery. I had been looking for an automatic or manual wind that isn’t running on eBay for my first service, but I hadn’t found one yet and I didn’t think I’d get one so soon. I’ve been thrown in the deep end.

My tool collection so far: teezers (no.3 and no.5), case back opening kit, crystal press kit, movement holder, rodico, magnifying headband (instead of loupe), rubber blower, dial cover with parts tray, spring bar tools, watch band kit. 
I do have a precision screwdriver kit but it’s not specific for watches and I think it only goes down to 1.0mm. Suggestions for a starter set are appreciated!

I know I’m going to need a crystal lifter for that Timex as the movement comes out the front. 
I know I’ll need some oil and something to apply the oil, but I’m not sure what kind and if they differ based on movement. 
I will also need some cleaner for the parts, I’m not looking to get an ultrasonic cleaner yet as it’s a bit out of my budget. 
I will need tools to remove and apply the hands on the dial, I know opinions differ widely on what tools are the best so I appreciate any suggestions. 
Will need a mainspring winder but these seem so expensive everywhere I look. 

Do I really need a timegrapher? I’m not looking to invest hundreds of dollars into one yet and I’m not too fussed about my watches running fast or slow. What are the downsides to not having one besides the watch not running accurately? Are there any decent alternatives to a timegrapher?

Anything else I’m missing?

I am on a budget here so anywhere I can safely cut corners right now I want to, especially considering these are personal projects so perfection isn’t key. Thanks!