Jump to content

What tools would you buy all over again?


firebynight

Recommended Posts

My wife is interested in learning some watchmaking!!! :woohoo-jumping-smiley-emoticon:

I've just been getting by using fairly cheap tools as I've needed them off Amazon. But she's more interested in getting the best tools. How can I say no?!

So ... if you were starting all over again and could pick your favorite tools for a beginner knowing what you know now, what would make the cut into your kit?

I was originally thinking we would do the Timezone course together, but now seeing Mark's courses, I'm leaning toward learning from him and feel like having the videos would take it to the next level in terms of understanding and seeing the work being done "in person". Have any of you done both and have an opinion either way? 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do not skimp on tweezers. I got myself a new set of Dumont anti-magnetic tweezers to replace my previous Swiss made, but generic, ones. WOW. So much easier to work. I may add to the arsenal on my next order.  
 
Really, the tools you use the most should be of the highest quality. Tweezers, screwdrivers and your loupe. Other tools used less often can cut corners a bit. 
 

Burgeon is the brand everyone knows (like Snap-On), but I’ve found A-F tools to be quite good and generally less expensive. 
 

I’ve also found dedicated OEM tools to often work better than generic. I have a Rolex case tube tool and it works better/nicer than the cheap-o tool I stripped and the nicer steel tool that replaced it, but that’s a bit small. But I fiddle with Rolex and Tudor a lot so it made sense buying that. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Tudor said:

Do not skimp on tweezers. I got myself a new set of Dumont anti-magnetic tweezers to replace my previous Swiss made, but generic, ones. WOW. So much easier to work. I may add to the arsenal on my next order. 

I did a "DIY" ebay build and I've changed batteries, crystals etc... with tweezers from my "IFIXIT" toolkit that I use for computers. Since I've been wanting to learn how to dissassemble and service a watch I splurged on Dumont 5 and Dumont 7 on cousins as well as a second hand Horotec set of brass B1 B5 S5 tweezers. I had the chance of playing with them 2 days ago while taking apart a seiko for training purposes and today for cleaning these parts. By gosh what a difference they make ! Picking up is much easier, the fit in hand and control over them is great. I do not regret my purchase.

 

I'd also say decent screwdrivers, I got the 9 set from cousins (I believe it's the set they replaced their A&F set with) and I find them easier to use and fit better than the cheap Anchor 5 set I had

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

L-G  openall watch case back opener.

Thanks, @Nucejoe! Is this the one? https://www.esslinger.com/lg-openall-rolex-watch-case-back-wrench-with-case-vise-without-base/

Sorry for a lame question but is it only for Rolex? I don't have any Rolex watches to work on haha, thankfully.

I already own one of these: https://www.esslinger.com/watch-tool-case-holder-for-lg-openall-case-wrench/ but having a stable base and the larger leverage would be very helpful!

Edited by firebynight
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have the generic does with the large plastic handle that works great for Rolex and Tudor. 
 

It was maybe $50 for the set. Copy of the Burgeon dies so the original/copy dies can fit the same handle. I have been eying the first for Omega case backs that fit this handle (similar pricing). I have a Chinese 2-point adjustable “spanner” type opener with like six different “bits” on each side I’ve used on Heuer and Omega cases before but it’s easy to slip and damage the back if you are not super careful setting up and using it. 
 

I have not run across a case I couldn’t get open, holding the case in my hand and the (correct) tool in the other. The China tool is a bit more fiddly. 
 

The one exception was a titanium case with a titanium back and the threads galled. I shrunk the cover with the liquid of an upside down cannot “air” and it came right off. I applied anti-gall compound after polishing the threads. 
 

And I still have a sticky ball to get the threads started straight before torquing it with the tool. Going straight for the tool is a great way to destroy the threads on the case or back. Doing that on a Rolex sports watch is financial suicide. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I can add something; what would you not bother with as well?

I got the cheapie mainspring barrel closing device from cousins. Solid win. Not likely something worth Bergeon money, but definitely worth having on hand.

Pithwood, pegwood, and Rodico. 

A blower. I tried to make due with a baby snot sucker; no dice. 

Timegrapher. Seems the Chinese special gets the job done more than fine. I got the 1900 rather than the 1000, but can't say I've used any of the extra features (I'm a noob).

Proper oils and greases.

Work mat. Keeps springy sproingy parts from springy sproinging too far.

Optics. Mine suck. I need to do something better.

On that note, lighting. Also need to up that game.

Seating/workbench. Too high, you're going to kill your neck. Too low seems difficult and obvious.

Demagnetizer. I got the cheapie blue guy off Amazon. It gets the job done. There are undoubtedly options that get the job done with less fuss.

I broke out my wallet for the screwdrivers and tweezers. I have a cheap eBay kit special set of tweezers, and a set of Dumont tweezers. The eBay special tweezers are essentially useless. I used to use them as a second hold down sort of thing, but pegwood does that better. They're useless now. I have a set of drivers from the same eBay kit. Useless. I got the student model Bergeon drivers, but have zero data points other than the two described. Seems like the sort of thing that falls under the same umbrella. I also have a few Snap-On ratchets, because they're so frequently used in the auto shop, and Lie Nielsen planes for the wood shop. Same philosophy.

Movement holder. I got a Bergeon 4040, and an Esslinger model. The Esslinger model has soft shoulders (best way I could think to describe that), and doesn't hold movements very well. The Bergeon is solid.

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good point with lighting. 
 

I bought two led shop light fixtures. My plan was one above and one on either side (which obviously requires a third) but I’ve been using only the overhead light. These things are awesome! Highly recommended. I got mine at Home Depot I think. 

I need to improve the workspace. 

My “bench” is an old kitchen table, with 2x10s stacked on it with the top from a large IKEA desk on that. I keep pliers and other “big” tools on the table, under the top. Handy, but not in the way. Also a pad and pen to jot down stuff I need. 

The top is huge so everything is spread out on top. Next to my green mat I keep my spring bar tools, and tweezers, along with my loupe. Screwdrivers are in their swivel stand in front of me; less used tools are in a clear bag to my left; bigger stuff like bezel tool, bracelet tool and case dies are on the right. 

I bought a bunch of “craft” boxes at Wal mart and dollar store so I can keep a watch and the collected parts together for each project. That was a big help. Then once I have everything I can build it. 

Loupes: I have an old B&L with a glass lens. I bought one a couple years ago for work and the lens was plastic. Clarity wasn’t the same either. I bought a Burgeon branded one and that’s what I’ve been using mostly. Other than occasional fogging it’s fine. 
 

Movement holders- I love the dedicated ones. I have one for 15xx and 31xx movements. Also the 4040 but I’m not crazy about it. It is quality however. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think they're intended to avoid scratching dials/hands/etc. I got a set of (something) tipped tweezers from Cousins a while back. The tips are very imprecise, and make them not the most usable things in the world. If the epoxy coating doesn't eliminate any precision, it seems like it would be worth a shot. Not sure how strictly they fall in the "can't do without" camp though.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I haven’t needed to with my new ones yet, but periodically I will polish my tweezer tips. The get scratched after a while and those scratches can cause scratches on what you pick up. 
 

I’ll fold 1000 and then 2000 grit paper in half (grit exposed on both sides) and grip the paper with the tweezers and pull it out. It makes them flat and smooth. 
 

I’ll do the outside occasionally on the polishing wheel just to make them look nice. 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/11/2020 at 7:24 PM, spectre6000 said:

I think they're intended to avoid scratching dials/hands/etc. I got a set of (something) tipped tweezers from Cousins a while back. The tips are very imprecise, and make them not the most usable things in the world. If the epoxy coating doesn't eliminate any precision, it seems like it would be worth a shot. Not sure how strictly they fall in the "can't do without" camp though.

I thought so at first as well, but looking again, it appears the epoxy coating is only on the handles. I think maybe it's if you're worried about static or working with sensitive electronic equipment? There shouldn't be any concern about static with mechanical movements, right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have that particular set of oilers. It's the only set I've ever had though, so I can't really say if they're better or worse than anything else. When I was compiling my spreadsheet for my initial tool layout, the feedback I got suggested oilers are a really personal thing, and that it's best to try a few different styles out before going all in on a particular type. As cheap as they are, it makes sense. As often as I see references to old and/or broken oilers being used for odd tasks, I figured I'd start somewhere that seemed decent, and then just work my way around as they break or get "old".

I think an automatic oiler seems like a huge time/sanity saver. One of the most difficult tasks is getting the oil ever so perfectly round, centered, and in the right quantity on the capstones with my poor lighting/optics. It seems like one of those skills that's definitely worth mastering, but for my purposes I'm not sure I wouldn't rather buy my way out and get that skill through other, less tedious ways.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for insights on the oilers front @spectre6000 and @Tudor! Which size automatic oiler would you get if you just got one?

What do  you think of this Horotec set with stand? Is it worth getting a stand? For just a bit over $100, you could get the set of Bergeon automatic oilers. Would you go that route instead?

Anyone have advice about what oils I should start with? 

I noticed the Otto Frei starter kit didn't include any. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would, and will, get the smallest auto oiler I can get. All I would use it for is cap jewels, so I don't need a fire hose.

That Ofrei starter kit is probably a decent enough kit. All quality parts. I use just about everything in that kit, bought separately from different brands/suppliers. I have slightly nicer screwdrivers (don't skimp there- they, and tweezers, are your "bread n butter").

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, firebynight said:

Thanks for insights on the oilers front @spectre6000 and @Tudor! Which size automatic oiler would you get if you just got one?

What do  you think of this Horotec set with stand? Is it worth getting a stand? For just a bit over $100, you could get the set of Bergeon automatic oilers. Would you go that route instead?

Anyone have advice about what oils I should start with? 

I noticed the Otto Frei starter kit didn't include any. 

I got the little four piece aluminum set we talked about earlier, and two of those urea plastic oil cups. I have five oils/greases, but I haven't really bothered putting two of them in the cups since they're used so infrequently, so one of the cups would have been sufficient. They're only $3 or so apiece, and the urea plastic is really hard stuff. It "tinks" like glass or ceramic or something. Feels like it'd shatter if you dropped it on a hard floor, but in a good way. I was expecting something like ABS. They were recommended by someone on here. All that is to say, you COULD spend $180 on an oiler setup, but you can also spend less than $20. I'm not a cheapskate by any means, I sprung for the Bergeon student driver set (30080 if memory serves), the 1900 timegrapher, etc., but I didn't feel like the return delta on the oiler sets was likely to be worth the 8X cost based on what I read here from people far more experienced.

As with everything I've said here, consider the source. I'm something like 0-6 in my watchmaking career... I still think I can ultimately get maybe two of them to run, so they've been spared the "art" bin, but I'm a 110% n00b.

Edited by spectre6000
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • A already know the size movement I have the problem is the dial a had purchased has a dimension 20.6mm wide a want to find a watch case that going to fit the dial perfectly 
    • Hi.  I would like to take issue here regarding battery driven , watches, clocks,etc. I will and do repair these clocks in fact I have sever al in my collection as well as the regular mechanical ones. I have one on my mantle piece over 60 years old tha belonged to my wife’s Aunt,  long gone Iam afraid and it has been cleaned etc and never missed a beat and is accurate. Every one has their preduices as regards Electrical /electronic Horology but I regard it as part of the progress time line of the art of Horology and to be treated as such. Like Darwin’s theory of evolution it evolved.  Two cavemen knocking rocks together and a shard broke off , looking at it he worked out if it was stuck on the end of a stick he would have a spear. Likewise his pal seeing what he was up to picked up a piece  and did the same, now that’s evolution. Some clockmaker decided to build a clock that ran with a battery and no spring to wind up and break, progress and both the mechanical and battery driven clocks evolved, the battery ones got better to the point that if it broke you changed the complete unit. Likewise watches did the same but both can be repaired by people who approach Horology with an open mind without preduice.  We all have our likes and dislikes bu I for one would never dismiss any technology because I don’t like it.   The mobile phone is a good example of modern technology at work as is the automotive industry. There buttons and switches in my car I don’t use because to me they are not nesessary but I still drive the car.
    • I haven't gone through all the reading of what it might be or not. The first thing I would do if nothing obvious stands out is replace the mainspring, you have to start at the source of the power. Nine times out of ten that is the problem.  
    • Haha. You're just in a wicked mood today John 😅
    • Heres my watch of today, a Smith 13'" RY . My missus bought me this for this Valentines day a bargain 14.99 with a reduction, the seller has occasional 20% off offers now and then so it was about 15ish with delivery. I love Smiths and i love bulleye dials, this is my first one. The watch arrived non working as stated and i knew what was inside and what would be against me, but i enjoy a challenge, we dont expect a lot if anything from pin pallet movements. A balance pivot was broken and i didnt have another staff but i did have another RY with a battered dial so i robbed the balance and tweaked it around to make it work apart from that mostly just a good clean and relubrication. Keyless works are pretty rough by design and the crown is a bugger to get in and out with the dial on, the setting lever hits the dial before it releases it, so a little mod is needed to help that along. Major problem was the pins on the lever were quite worn which make the old tg have a snow storm fit. Its a similar read for most pin pallets, these were brass as was the escape wheel. But perseverance is me, i didn't change the pins but i did spend some time dressing and polishing the worn areas which improved the trace a lot with some straightish lines 😅 and a beat error of .5 . Not sure what the lift angle should be on these and i Wasn't in the mood to work it out and who believes timegraphers anyway, but at the default 52° it runs with 260ish full 210 after 24 hours dial down , the verticals rates were pretty much all over place. So lets just put it in it's superlight aluminium case and see what happens. Been wearing it now for 3 weeks and it's consistently losing around 1.5  minutes a week winding each morning i think pretty good for an old pin pallet watch. I just love this dial, thanks wifey heres my Valentine's gift for yer sweetie x
×
×
  • Create New...