Source for ETA 2836-2 in Top Grade

[BrianB]

I'm pretty sure this is a stupid question, but I'm going to ask it anyway. 

Does anybody know of a source for ETA 2836-2 movements in Top or Chronometer Grade? My Google Fu suggests that these are not easy to come by, save perhaps by buying a watch that contains such movement and harvesting it. The need is not strong enough to go to those lengths.

If anybody has a source please let me know.

Thanks!

[clockboy]

Cousins sell movements so I would try there first. The next port of call eBay

[VWatchie]

1 hour ago, clockboy said:

Cousins sell movements so I would try there first. The next port of call eBay

Agree with @clockboy. However, don't expect too much from Cousins as these movements more than likely are "restricted", that is ETA won't supply them as trying to kill off the independent repair trade has been in progress for the past 35 years or so.

Anyway, I'd be very interested to follow this so please keep us informed! Thanks!

[canthus]

Try here, not sure if 2836 there but maybe alternatives.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/swissmadetime

[BrianB]

5 hours ago, clockboy said:

Cousins sell movements so I would try there first. The next port of call eBay

Thanks. Checked Cousins and U.S. version of eBay, along with hours of Google searches. Usually when that turns up nothing it's a good indicator that what I'm looking for may be unobtainium. 

That said, it does look like Cousins carries some ETA parts, so that's good to have in the memory banks.

3 hours ago, VWatchie said:

Agree with @clockboy. However, don't expect too much from Cousins as these movements more than likely are "restricted", that is ETA won't supply them as trying to kill off the independent repair trade has been in progress for the past 35 years or so.

Anyway, I'd be very interested to follow this so please keep us informed! Thanks!

It is a shame that seems to be the trend in so many industries. The car manufacturers seem to not want anybody but them repairing the vehicles they make either. I'm definitely a fan of "right to repair" but sadly it seems most consumers are not do-it-yourselfers. Hence there just isn't enough public outcry to make the pols do something that is going to make a bunch of wealthy manufacturers angry.

2 hours ago, canthus said:

Try here, not sure if 2836 there but maybe alternatives.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/swissmadetime

I had not found that particular eBay store. Though they don't have the 2836 in Top Grade, they do have several other Top Grade movements, as well as a bunch of other great stuff like dials and such. Thanks for the pointer.

[CaptCalvin]

Keep an eye out on Ebay for refurbished Mido movements. They pop up occasionally and are almost always top grade.

[CaptCalvin]

Found an unbranded one here. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/GENUINE-ETA-2824-2-Top-grade-tudor-Movement-FREE-SHIPPING/363046856052?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item5487476574:g:~A8AAOSw~W9fC6yW&amdata=enc%3AAQAFAAACYBaobrjLl8XobRIiIML1V4Imu%2Fn%2BzU5L90Z278x5ickkBSh1VzQSTzkTiSV5EE%2FHQbxYFd2BRZTM70SWfjk4MOti%2BGwmzBDURA5wH%2BNN8hWVBEdrIQcz2U7r3D7lCPaqOaZlf9ISl3qdHu6NS0NVVx1yt%2BJZUYxgJde3BiJIDF1RvqMC01HDl5gH%2F0UCjCgGR7FsLfj9NNAv%2BdLbYPN1IIM1AJ9YTZNpplnn15Yv2HseWaMmNX9MeSavi%2F0rjpNvQP7pWAa2wMd2ZOvoNKSpgtZ3X%2BwYVVb1rPlsH7AGmAAOIgxUX6dS8qYTzn6MdNvuL3SHRx4X0rrwCnOPux7KxH%2FbWJ2Ci9rGU7XcATkEWQL5VZor6VRP1vMUseoQRKeGS8fsjEc5uj8xbKbbPgLEu0io6PBJI7tzcrHeCOkqLMhP4v%2FHB9j6VHmWCnckc8SLHG3bwMt65GjCUS07sO3fAngg6eAjApokMhINza97O2D3uhH%2BonLsp7mPd5gJA%2Fd%2FtwfZxlwmTuOBlaqKj3664sKnHGIRzAdky8rad6OXYqS4e3ziLf2y3fcoJ43FXq0QmDFmcIlAjefWqfdCLWwYdOHgVhgC898JMa6xCpzZOqecOw9tjkshLjiuRf%2B3j5wofp%2BngBZhwKaSpX65ss7usLxoIM%2BTme%2BvvqnE2ajJ730EoNEsyaMFExNXSA7brBA50KiLw6QgJBdCKbd3%2B6rMqPDuxxgEXXuWLrRfZIS%2FlALvkTMh2Q7IYIwQe0B3fVwJMuui%2FrYJCAxcMZ%2Blu26eUOXBuU%2FGUBdF1FZOA%2B9VReYe|cksum%3A363046856052d6ca498e9be04dd09e02c646c05380ab|ampid%3APL_CLK|clp%3A2334524

I wouldn't pay that kinda price for it. But that's just because a few months back I saw refurbished top grade Mido 7750s on ebay going for less than 400 so my knowledge of the market could be outdated. Someone more in the know can tell you if this is the actual market price for these now.

Edited August 27, 2020 by CaptCalvin

[Nucejoe]

Are all top grades of the same quality?  This one is a Tudor. I think is superior to Mido. 

I agree asks too much.

[Nucejoe]

What do you find interesting in 2836-2 which 2836-1 doesn't offer?

[CaptCalvin]

Well if it actually is a Tudor movement then it would indeed be superior to Mido. But this one isn't. Tudor would've equipped their 2824s with triovis fine adjust regulators. This one lacks such modification. As far as I'm concerned it's just an off the shelf top grade 2824.

[BrianB]

10 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

What do you find interesting in 2836-2 which 2836-1 doesn't offer?

Candidly I've never seen a -1 mentioned nor for sale. I know the difference between 2824 and 2836 (date vs. day date respectively) but know nothing about -1 vs. -2 (other than -2 is probably newer so probably fixed some shortcoming of the -1).

[BrianB]

13 hours ago, CaptCalvin said:

Found an unbranded one here. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/GENUINE-ETA-2824-2-Top-grade-tudor-Movement-FREE-SHIPPING/363046856052

I wouldn't pay that kinda price for it. But that's just because a few months back I saw refurbished top grade Mido 7750s on ebay going for less than 400 so my knowledge of the market could be outdated. Someone more in the know can tell you if this is the actual market price for these now.

Yikes, they are proud of that one aren't they? I'm with you - I wouldn't pay that kind of money for that movement. Also it's a 2824 and my friend's case that he wants to build a watch around is for a 2836. I know the two are close but the 2836 is 0.45mm taller and I've read that the stem won't be perfectly centered on the tube if you put a 2824 in a case designed for a 2836 (though I've never done it).

The funny thing is the dial he wants to use is a no-date dial, so the day and date wheels are going to be hidden anyway. 

[spectre6000]

If you're after a full movement, why not side step into a Sellita. Save some money and future proof yourself. Some may disagree, but as far as I'm able to ascertain (admittedly not having had an example of each in hand), it seems they're essentially identical in terms of quality. Some parts are interchangeable, and some are slightly different, but the dimensions are the same.

Also, if the difference between a 2824 and a 2836 is the day function, I was under the impression they'd just be leaving those parts off. When I get around to it, I'll be removing the ghost day/date from the 2824 in my daily driver, and I'll just pull the parts and swap the detent spring. Why would there be a height difference?

Edited August 28, 2020 by spectre6000

[BrianB]

12 minutes ago, spectre6000 said:

If you're after a full movement, why not side step into a Sellita. Save some money and future proof yourself. Some may disagree, but as far as I'm able to ascertain (admittedly not having had an example of each in hand), it seems they're essentially identical in terms of quality. Some parts are interchangeable, and some are slightly different, but the dimensions are the same.

Also, if the difference between a 2824 and a 2836 is the day function, I was under the impression they'd just be leaving those parts off. When I get around to it, I'll be removing the ghost day/date from the 2824 in my daily driver, and I'll just pull the parts and swap the detent spring. Why would there be a height difference?

Regarding using a Sellita this is a great suggestion. I looked up and found the SW220-1 is compatible with the ETA 2836. The height even matches at 5.05 mm. It's available in "Top Grade" for about $220. Very nice. Thank you.

Regarding the height difference between the 2824 and 2836, I would have thought the same as you - that the two movements differ only by the day ring and would be the same height. Perhaps the additional height is due to the circlip that holds the day wheel on?

In any event there is definitely a 0.45 mm difference in height according to the ETA service sheets. See excerpts below.

[CaptCalvin]

Well one advantage using a 2836 over 2824 even for date only is the instantaneous day/date jump the 2836 has. The 2824 has the date start tilting slightly for about 10 minutes before the jump. Some would say semi-instantaneous. But the 2836 flips both day and date Rolex style: absolute-instantaneous. Simultaneously. You blink you miss. It's pretty neat. 

Edited August 28, 2020 by CaptCalvin

[CaptCalvin]

These are no where near as popular as 2824 so trying to find a top version of these is going to be nigh impossible. If anything you can always try dropping in a 2824 top grade balance complete. 

Found one here:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Breitling-Balance-Wheel-Complete-Bridge-Calibre-ETA-2824-2/233580878367?hash=item3662815a1f:g:Ae0AAOSwHwVeenhN

[BrianB]

32 minutes ago, CaptCalvin said:

These are no where near as popular as 2824 so trying to find a top version of these is going to be nigh impossible. If anything you can always try dropping in a 2824 top grade balance complete. 

Found one here:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Breitling-Balance-Wheel-Complete-Bridge-Calibre-ETA-2824-2/233580878367?hash=item3662815a1f:g:Ae0AAOSwHwVeenhN

I assume you know it is Top/Chronometer grade because it has an Incabloc anti-shock device instead of Novodiac.

[CaptCalvin]

27 minutes ago, BrianB said:

I assume you know it is Top/Chronometer grade because it has an Incabloc anti-shock device instead of Novodiac.

That's not a reliable way of telling the difference. The most reliable way is to look at the shape of the spokes on the balance wheel, provided it's genuine. Top grades have  an hourglass shape to them. Lower grades have straight taper. Chinese clones might also use the hourglass shape but to my knowledge no Chinese clones have yet attempted a snailing finish on the outer perimeter of the movement like ETA does. So if the picture is actually of the item sold I'm fairly confident it's a genuine TOP grade balance complete.

Edited August 28, 2020 by CaptCalvin

[Tudor]

On 8/27/2020 at 12:31 PM, CaptCalvin said:

Well if it actually is a Tudor movement then it would indeed be superior to Mido. But this one isn't. Tudor would've equipped their 2824s with triovis fine adjust regulators. This one lacks such modification. As far as I'm concerned it's just an off the shelf top grade 2824.

I'm reasonably certain only the chronometer certified movement would have the micro adjust balance wheel. All the others are bog-standard with some embellishment on the plates. 2784 genuine movements also have "tudor" engraved on the main plate, under the dial. The rotor weights have been copied for ever... They do at least adjust them I think.

[CaptCalvin]

4 hours ago, Tudor said:

I'm reasonably certain only the chronometer certified movement would have the micro adjust balance wheel. All the others are bog-standard with some embellishment on the plates. 2784 genuine movements also have "tudor" engraved on the main plate, under the dial. The rotor weights have been copied for ever... They do at least adjust them I think.

Are you certain? I don't think I'd ever seen a Tudor 2824 with the "bog standard" fine regulator. Every one I'd ever seen come with the type in this pic:

 

[Tudor]

Pretty sure...

[Tudor]

More pics of it... 

[spectre6000]

Something that jumps to my eye as being out of character for Tudor is the rotor is printed rather than engraved and gilt (or whatever you'd call the gold in there). Same with the movement specs missing on the automatic plate. That's probably a real ETA 2824-2, but it looks like an Elaboré grade with a logo printed on the rotor. Maybe something happened to the original movement, and it was replaced on the cheap?

Edited September 1, 2020 by spectre6000

[jdm]

2 hours ago, spectre6000 said:

Something that jumps to my eye as being out of character for Tudor is the rotor is printed

Etched actually. 

2 hours ago, spectre6000 said:

That's probably a real ETA 2824-2, but it looks like an Elaboré grade with a logo printed on the rotor

Rolex is "big enough" to get whatever variance they want from OEM ETA offering.

Without specific, direct knowledge on the matter making assumptions based "on looks" is just guessing. 

[Tudor]

Nope. All original. Even the crown and original crystal were on it when I got it, and the bezel was stuck with dirt and would not turn. Even the bezel insert is original. I did have t add a NOS tritium pearl to the insert however (only a couple of those left now)

I saved the original crown and crystal and replaced both with the correct 702 crown and 125 top hat (not beveled service) crystal.

The watch is from 1978; 2784 movement.

Newer watches have the engraved/guilt rotor you describe and show on the 2824 above which is readily available as a "reproduction" (to use polite terms).