Seiko S-6 Grease vs. Bergeon KT22

[VWatchie]

I'm reassembling my first Seiko movement, a calibre 7s36B, and I'm about to lubricate the second reduction wheel. According to Seiko's technical guide Seiko's S-6 Silicon Grease should be used. CousinsUK has it in stock (link here). Anyway, it's pretty expensive and I don't expect to service any similar Seiko movement any time soon (very educational, not for beginners, movement to service but right now I suffer from a "Seiko and Orient fatigue" ).

So, my question is; do you think I could use Bergeon's KT22 - Silicone Grease (which I happen to have at hand) as a good or decent replacement (link here)? If not, I'd appreciate any other recommendations!

Edited August 7, 2020 by VWatchie

[watchweasol]

Hi According to the watchsite the equivalents are Moebius  8141,      Mob D5    Mob  M9103,    So appears to be some choice.   Find attsched Mob oil and grease application chart.           

Moebius Oil and Grease Application Chart - Leosics.co.uk.html

[aac58]

It's usually accepted to use HP1000 or HP1300 instead of S6. I use the later on the 2nd reduction wheel.

[jdrichard]

I would use HP1300, or D5


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[CaptCalvin]

I wouldn't follow the Seiko guide too closely. There's the obviously questionable suggestion that you oil the pallet pivots, and there's the use of "S-6" in parts of the train. That's a grease, and I know of no other manufacturer that call for the use of grease in any part of the train in any caliber this size. I would improvise and use HP1300 there like any other automatic device. I would however use some grease on pawl and ratchet teeth on the second reduction wheel. I can see that wearing down over time without a heavier lubricant.

[jdm]

30 minutes ago, CaptCalvin said:

There's the obviously questionable suggestion that you oil the pallet pivots, and there's the use of "S-6" in parts of the train.

We had another member recently looking for reassurance about using Seiko lubricants, but no amount of good reasoning prevented him from spending on that. Probably caused by blind faith in written material over relying on other's experience when it comes to a question asked many times on this forum alone.

Quote

I would however use some grease on pawl and ratchet teeth on the second reduction wheel. I can see that wearing down over time without a heavier lubricant.

I use 8301 there. A bit messy and natural based, still better than leaving it dry like the factory does.

[VWatchie]

38 minutes ago, CaptCalvin said:

I would however use some grease on pawl and ratchet teeth on the second reduction wheel.

So perhaps Moebius 9501 or Moebius 9504 grease?

[VWatchie]

42 minutes ago, CaptCalvin said:

I would however use some grease on pawl and ratchet teeth on the second reduction wheel. I can see that wearing down over time without a heavier lubricant.

 

6 minutes ago, jdm said:

I use 8301 there. A bit messy and natural based, still better than leaving it dry like the factory does.

Seiko's technical guide recommends S-6 silicon grease for the second reduction wheel and it would seem some of you would prefer a thicker oil like D5 or HP-1300 whereas @jdm and @CaptCalvin prefer a grease. According to CousinsUK 8301 contains graphite and is similar to Seiko S-4 and is the recommended grease for the first reduction wheel.

Hmm... Since S-6 is a grease I believe a grease would be the better option. So, how about some Moebius 9501 as I have it?

[canthus]

Apart from the grease/heavy oil aspect, silicone grease is very difficult to remove once applied.  If it migrates to other parts there could be problems in store.  I worked in the lubes industry and we avoided silicone whenever we could as we could not make other lubes on the same plant until it had been mechanically cleaned!  There are oils (not watch types) that contain silicone but these are normally for larger mechanisms.  HP1300 would be my choice, but if grease then 9501 as this is quite a soft/oily grease (silicone grease tends to be stiffer).  Just my thoughts.

[VWatchie]

1 hour ago, canthus said:

I worked in the lubes industry

Thanks for your input @canthus, much appreciated! 

[CaptCalvin]

2 hours ago, VWatchie said:

So perhaps Moebius 9501 or Moebius 9504 grease?

I'm not sure it's too critical. There are no wrong answers here. I used Molykote Dx as it's cheap, it works well, and  it's what I had.

2 hours ago, VWatchie said:

So perhaps Moebius 9501 or Moebius 9504 grease?

Well I try to keep application of oils to pivots only as much as possible. Minimizes the risk of spreading.

Edited August 8, 2020 by CaptCalvin