Pocket watch advice

[ThrobinsonCrusoe]

Esteemed members I'm in need of some advice.

I have had a pocket watch movement tucked away that I picked up for a few quid, and finally got around to taking a look.

 

Its a gorgeous piece and its blued hairspring has me hooked, even with a broken bridle and a mainspring that was swimming in grease it has a good reading on the timing machine. So I'd like to have it as a usable watch. She is a Dimier Freres & Cie like the one sold here.

 

https://www.sellingantiques.co.uk/370442/dfc-antique-silver-pocket-watch-cheltenham/

 

The main problem I'd like to overcome is finding a case to house the movement. I believe the cases for this type of watch come with an integrated key/stem for winding and setting. Where do I begin to find something compatible?

 

Does anyone have any advice on how to wind and set a movement like this without the case?

 

It also needs a new bridle for the mainspring and a replacement dial.

 

 

 

 

 

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[yankeedog]

I am thinking  this type of movement  has a sort of square  drive  socket that the stem engages that you push in to set.if so perhaps  you can find a piece  of square key stock of the appropriate  size If you have an actual  hardware  store that hasn't  been driven out of business. Winding could  be accomplished  with a proper  screwdriver. As for a case,you might try those who ply the steampunk trade on ETSY. 

Edited July 29, 2020 by yankeedog

[JohnR725]

it would be nice to have pictures of your movement even if it was in pieces.

If I pretend it's an American watch it looks like about the size of the 16 size pocket watch. In which case it should fit in a 16 size case. Typically with American pocket watches the stem and crown come with the case. The movement should have a square opening at one end and if you want to wind it you need a bench key. I'll see if I can find you a picture or a link. Typically though with American pocket watches when they're out of the case they immediately go into setting and they don't really run the best when there driving the setting mechanism when the running. Later on they would put various devices when working on the watch to put it back into winding when it's out of the case. But I can't tell what you have until we get a picture.

Is eBay listing is no longer available but this is what I think of for bench keys for watches. Other than the price which is way more expensive than what they used to cost. Typically Three of them and that would cover all of your American pocket watch sizes

https://www.ebay.com/itm/K-amp-D-Pocket-Watch-Bench-Keys-Tools-Watchmaker-Bench-Top-Favorite-Estate-Find-/353122605721?nma=true&si=CLxrUdlKhPCFqLU9r9HLyATjL1I%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Then some of the miscellaneous ones with wooden handles I think are just pocket watch stems inserted into wooden handles.

http://daveswatchparts.com/BenchKeys.html

[ThrobinsonCrusoe]

Thanks for the tips. I've attached some images, its in bits until later today.

Its seems to have been in the setting position while out of its case. A set of bench keys might have to be an addition to the toolbox but I wonder if an Alan key would work?

The movement is 43mm. Do pocket watch cases have any form of standardisation in terms of size? I have browsed ebay and etsy for one to rescue but have no idea where to start.

Speaking of steampunk graveyards, I saved a box of vostok 2209 movements from an ebay auction and already have one running within 10s/d [emoji3]

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[yankeedog]

Allen  key ? No reason why it shouldn't.   But since isn't a precise fit I wouldnt something  always seems to get buggered when ever I try something  like that.There are also square drive bits  out there.  They usually  come with other assorted bits and  fit into your standard 1/4 driver you would chuck into a drill.  While  I would not advocate  winding the watch with a makita.it might be another option.   

[JohnR725]

57 minutes ago, yankeedog said:

Allen  key ? No reason why it shouldn't.

the Allen key idea looks nice on paper the same as WD-40 would probably be a good lubrication for watches after all its cheap. Although neither one is really the way to do things.

It does appear to be set up to function like an American pocket watch. In that when it's out of the case it is in setting that means the watch isn't going to really run well unless it's in a case. Later pocket watches did have methods to allow the repair people to put the watch back in winding but yours does not appear to have that. So even if you use the Allen key you're going to have to hold it in your hand continuously pressing it in to keep it in winding.

9 hours ago, ThrobinsonCrusoe said:

The movement is 43mm. Do pocket watch cases have any form of standardisation in terms of size? I have browsed ebay and etsy for one to rescue but have no idea where to start

in the early days of American pocket watches and I do not know if was unique to this country the watches were manufactured by one company another company manufactured the cases. If you look at the link below it appears to be that you have a 16 size American pocket watch. So all you need is a 16 size pocket watch case.

Then I probably shouldn't even bring this up but the part that keeps the stem in place is found inside the case it's known as a sleeve. It's adjustable because conceivably the different watches require the stem to be in a slightly different position. It also unfortunately wears out after 100 years or can wear out. Unfortunately you won't know that until you buy your case.

https://cwrnh.com/watch-movement-size-conversion-chart/

 

[ThrobinsonCrusoe]

in the early days of American pocket watches and I do not know if was unique to this country the watches were manufactured by one company another company manufactured the cases. If you look at the link below it appears to be that you have a 16 size American pocket watch. So all you need is a 16 size pocket watch case.
Then I probably shouldn't even bring this up but the part that keeps the stem in place is found inside the case it's known as a sleeve. It's adjustable because conceivably the different watches require the stem to be in a slightly different position. It also unfortunately wears out after 100 years or can wear out. Unfortunately you won't know that until you buy your case.
https://cwrnh.com/watch-movement-size-conversion-chart/
 

Thanks for all the info John, I think I have enough to go. I won't hold out much hope for finding a case but I'll keep an eye out, and hope my hammer drill does the job in the meantime

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[yankeedog]

2 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

the Allen key idea looks nice on paper the same as WD-40 would probably be a good lubrication for watches after all its cheap. Although neither one is really the way to do things.

It does appear to be set up to function like an American pocket watch. In that when it's out of the case it is in setting that means the watch isn't going to really run well unless it's in a case. Later pocket watches did have methods to allow the repair people to put the watch back in winding but yours does not appear to have that. So even if you use the Allen key you're going to have to hold it in your hand continuously pressing it in to keep it in winding.

in the early days of American pocket watches and I do not know if was unique to this country the watches were manufactured by one company another company manufactured the cases. If you look at the link below it appears to be that you have a 16 size American pocket watch. So all you need is a 16 size pocket watch case.

Then I probably shouldn't even bring this up but the part that keeps the stem in place is found inside the case it's known as a sleeve. It's adjustable because conceivably the different watches require the stem to be in a slightly different position. It also unfortunately wears out after 100 years or can wear out. Unfortunately you won't know that until you buy your case.

https://cwrnh.com/watch-movement-size-conversion-chart/

 

Please  read entire post

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, yankeedog said:

Please  read entire post

I'm hoping that you are having the same problem that I'm having?

 

2 hours ago, ThrobinsonCrusoe said:

I won't hold out much hope for finding a case

right now there are 16 size cases on eBay screaming out they want to go to a new home. It would be nice though if you can find a case to try but they're out there. I didn't suggest this before but you might also just look for 16 size pocket watches because it may be possible to buy a cheap pocket watch just to get the bonus case it's not like were looking for a 17 size case for instance or a 10 size key wind case the 10 size is something that I casually looked for they come up occasionally very occasionally because are not really common sizes in a more not like 16 size I'm guessing 16 size was the size the most universal widely recognized size of all American pocket watches so you can't find a case you're not trying very hard.

[ThrobinsonCrusoe]

right now there are 16 size cases on eBay screaming out they want to go to a new home. It would be nice though if you can find a case to try but they're out there. I didn't suggest this before but you might also just look for 16 size pocket watches because it may be possible to buy a cheap pocket watch just to get the bonus case it's not like were looking for a 17 size case for instance or a 10 size key wind case the 10 size is something that I casually looked for they come up occasionally very occasionally because are not really common sizes in a more not like 16 size I'm guessing 16 size was the size the most universal widely recognized size of all American pocket watches so you can't find a case you're not trying very hard.

I see one or two dotted around but postage to the UK really drives the price up.

I don't really want to contribute to watch movement homelessness by getting a complete watch.

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[JohnR725]

7 hours ago, ThrobinsonCrusoe said:

I see one or two dotted around but postage to the UK really drives the price up

one of the problems with online discussion groups if people don't place a location on their profile is the assumption made that they could be? On the other hand having been to UK I am reasonably sure that there is still vintage stuff that hasn't been melted down and it you keep an eye on UK eBay probably drop the word 16size from the sizing sooner or later you'll find a case. Almost everything sews up on eBay sooner or later you just half to be patient, even stuff that isn't supposed actually exist shows up on eBay if you're looking for it.

[ThrobinsonCrusoe]

I'll keep an eye out john! Thanks for the advice.

A screwdriver turned out best for winding and setting. She just needs a new mainspring.

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