Isn't this overoil?

[EatPeach]

Hey guys. I was browing a local second hand app. And I saw a watch repairer was promoting his services. I was curious and then clicking in. There's some pics showing off his technic or some sorts. And I found this.

I mean this is a terrible overoil right? It looks like every teeth of the escape wheel has a lot of lubricant. I never oil the escapement like this. Do you think this is an overoil or an acceptable amount of lurbricantion?

[CaptCalvin]

Haha a hot point of debate till this day I'm afraid. Some would say overoiled and others might say otherwise. Even established brands have differing practices. Rolex might want this amount of lubricant on there but Swatch limits to a maximum of a wedge filling 3/4 of the gap between tooth and impulse face for example. I wouldn't use this much lubrication myself but I wouldn't knock this watchmaker for doing so. In fact I rather think he did a pretty neat job. I've looked at the escapments in my friends brand new Grand Seiko and Tudor watches and they've far messier applications. They both ran just fine with more than acceptable amplitudes on the timegrapher. The important thing is we're all in agreement that the lubrication must not migrate away from working surfaces or into areas that will degrade performance. Everything else is give and take.

Edited July 25, 2020 by CaptCalvin

[EatPeach]

1 minute ago, CaptCalvin said:

Haha a hot point of debate till this day I'm afraid. Some would say overoiled and others might say otherwise. Even established brands have differing practices. Rolex might want this amount of lubricant on there but Swatch limits to a maximum of a wedge filling 3/4 of the gap between tooth and impulse fave for example. I wouldn't use this much lubrication myself but I wouldn't knock this watchmaker for doing so. In fact I rather think he did a pretty neat job. I've looked at the escapments in my friends brand new Grand Seiko and Tudor watches and they've far messier applications. They both ran just fine with more than acceptable amplitudes on the timegrapher. The important thing is that we're all in agreement that the lubrication must not migrate away from working surfaces. Everything else is give and take.

Yeah this thing is definetly unacceptable

[CaptCalvin]

4 minutes ago, EatPeach said:

Yeah this thing is definetly unacceptable

Oh? Someone pointing THAT out as being unacceptable is new to me.

According to Omega lubrication guidelines:

[EatPeach]

1 minute ago, CaptCalvin said:

Oh? Someone pointing THAT out as being unacceptable is new to me.

According to Omega lubrication guidelines:

yeah but it feels like that drop it way too big. Anyway If I see that big drop over there. I would clean it and start over

[CaptCalvin]

5 minutes ago, EatPeach said:

yeah but it feels like that drop it way too big. Anyway If I see that big drop over there. I would clean it and start over

I myself don't see a drop of that size on there as being a point of much criticism. It really doesn't seem that big to me.

[nickelsilver]

It does appear to be epilamed, otherwise you would see oil on other areas of the escape teeth and possibly on other surfaces of the pallet. It may be a little heavy, I wouldn't want that much on a tiny 5 ligne LeCoultre escapement, but for a high beat modern watch, with epilame, is OK to me.

[HSL]

I think the awci.com has very good articles about american watch making standards, there actually is an article about this type of lubrication.
I just lubricate 28800 A/h and above with Moebius 9415.
Think that looks a bit flooded to be hounest, but everything is relative

https://www.awci.com/watchmaking-excellen/lubrication/

[oldhippy]

Why to much oil. We don't even know if its the right oil or not. Well flooded comes to mind. 

[JohnR725]

4 hours ago, oldhippy said:

We don't even know if its the right oil or not.

I would be really curious as to what sort of lubrication that is? Yes it's under magnification but that's a heck of a lot of oil to be on the ends of the escape wheel teeth.it definitely goes way beyond any acceptable test by anyone of what is an acceptable quantity.

One of the reasons like in the Omega documentation they get excited about the quantity of lubrication is. If it's 9415 for instance that is actually a grease with interesting properties. On impact its fluid very slippery. If the quantities are two great it actually hinders the escapement from functioning and causes a decrease in amplitude. That's because the non-impact part of the lubricant being a grease is actually sticky and only on the surface are you getting reduced friction but the side part that sticky cancels that out. On the other hand if this was 941 the classic oil before the grease that wouldn't be an issue. But the color doesn't look right.

 

[EatPeach]

2 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

I would be really curious as to what sort of lubrication that is? Yes it's under magnification but that's a heck of a lot of oil to be on the ends of the escape wheel teeth.it definitely goes way beyond any acceptable test by anyone of what is an acceptable quantity.

One of the reasons like in the Omega documentation they get excited about the quantity of lubrication is. If it's 9415 for instance that is actually a grease with interesting properties. On impact its fluid very slippery. If the quantities are two great it actually hinders the escapement from functioning and causes a decrease in amplitude. That's because the non-impact part of the lubricant being a grease is actually sticky and only on the surface are you getting reduced friction but the side part that sticky cancels that out. On the other hand if this was 941 the classic oil before the grease that wouldn't be an issue. But the color doesn't look right.

 

Just making a guess. Although the color tend toward 9415, I dont really think any watchmaker would flood the escapewheel like that using 9415. It's grease so I dont believe anyone especially those know something about watch can do so unless he use a very big oiler with a very big drop of 9415. Doesn't sound realistic to me. Assuming it's 941, does it have the risk that the lubricant will spread overtime?

[spectre6000]

I seem to recall having watched a video on escapement lubrication from Lititz. That looks like it was done by their methodology. My baseline to that point was Mark's videos on the subject (I'm sure most of you are aware he's of the very light application school), and I thought it looked extremely excessive. The again, the LWT seems fairly well respected. Add the historical lens to the subject, and my takeaway is that it's yet another spectrum thing. You've got the barest film being ideal on one end, and this sort on the other. As long as you're ON the spectrum, don't sweat it.

[rodabod]

It's sometimes hard to make judgements just from photos like this. Ultimately what matters is how well it runs, and how long it will continue to run well for. One disadvantage of overoiling is that there is an increased risk of spreading from my experience, but that relates to oil on jewel holes and cap jewels. Pallets are more complex due to the scraping effect and impact.