Help identifying Ulysse Nardin movement

[cduke]

Hello All

Can anyone help me identify a UN movement from the 40’s or 50’s. The only Id numbers are 3000464 which I think is a serial number and bxp. Which I think were export numbers. I need to find a HS.

thanks

Edited July 19, 2020 by cduke

[JohnR725]

the link below has the meaning of export codes in your case it is BXP Bayer, Pretzfelder & Mills, Glycine, Imperial, Norwich, Ulysse Nardin, Vauchay,

then usually chronometer grade watches have serial numbers which is what the big number is probably

then identifying the watches going to be a challenge. We might be able to a figure out what the movement is from the setting parts on the dial side. But otherwise any kind of research into a watch like this typically comes up with nothing. Also you can't get a hairspring for it you'll need to get a balance completes unless you can find somebody to why write a new hairspring for you. probably the best place to find parts would be eBay where the movements show up at a variety of amusing prices.

[jdm]

11 hours ago, cduke said:

Can anyone help me identify a UN movement from the 40’s or 50’s.

Just because the case is UN or whatever doesn't mean the the mov't also is. Back then, and now as well, the mov't maker may remove or change any stamping for the customer. Your movement is an ETA 87x or 87x. You can do this kind of searches on ranfft.de

[Nucejoe]

A look at the other side of the movement is neccessary.

Ulysse Nardin made high grade movements usually chrono grade which were put in chronograph watches, temperature as well as several positions adjusted.

This square geometry point to Michelangelo collection in tonnou cases, go to chrono24, search for the said collection to match a dial that accomodates the complications of your movement.

If this is a flat hairspring( pic a bit blurry), you may just vibrate a hairspring with balance wheel, since you have already lost the temperautre adjustment and are unlikely to get  satisfactory adjustment in five positions.

Good luck pal.

[HSL]

Looks like it is based on an ETA movement, it looks like the escape and pallet been modified to achieve the chronometer standard.
They probably done stuff with the balance too.
Found an article about the watch but it doesn't reveal the movement caliber.

 http://www.vintage-watches-collection.com/watch/ulysse-nardin/ulysse-nardin-art-deco-tank-1947/

[cduke]

7 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

A look at the other side of the movement is neccessary.

Ulysse Nardin made high grade movements usually chrono grade which were put in chronograph watches, temperature as well as several positions adjusted.

This square geometry point to Michelangelo collection in tonnou cases, go to chrono24, search for the said collection to match a dial that accomodates the complications of your movement.

If this is a flat hairspring( pic a bit blurry), you may just vibrate a hairspring with balance wheel, since you have already lost the temperautre adjustment and are unlikely to get  satisfactory adjustment in five positions.

Good luck pal.

Thanks for your smart answer. Always get a lesson every time you reply!

[Nucejoe]

19 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

the link below has the meaning of export codes in your case it is BXP Bayer, Pretzfelder & Mills, Glycine, Imperial, Norwich, Ulysse Nardin, Vauchay,

then usually chronometer grade watches have serial numbers which is what the big number is probably

then identifying the watches going to be a challenge. We might be able to a figure out what the movement is from the setting parts on the dial side. But otherwise any kind of research into a watch like this typically comes up with nothing. Also you can't get a hairspring for it you'll need to get a balance completes unless you can find somebody to why write a new hairspring for you. probably the best place to find parts would be eBay where the movements show up at a variety of amusing prices.

If we can identify the family this belongs to, there is a chance to come up with the CGS of the hairspring, thence its balance can be vibrated( Hopefully we can work with Cduke to vibrate one)  I am affraid just the name ulysse Nardin would hurt Cduke's wallet , where as generic hairsprings cost 6 to ten dollars for a dozen.

Regards

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, Nucejoe said:

If we can identify the family this belongs to, there is a chance to come up with the CGS of the hairspring, thence its balance can be vibrated( Hopefully we can work with Cduke to vibrate one) 

we do not need to identify who or what made the watch if you want CGS of the hairspring.

fortunately there is a procedure is relatively easy. Using the table I've attached below find an approximate hairspring it does not have to be the correct one. Then you vibrate they hairspring using the formula you can do the calculation the figure out the correct hairspring. then using a calculation and your new CGS number you vibrate that spring and verify it is correct.

As I said easy except? The exception is to vibrate a hairspring you need a vibrating tool I haven't looked lately on eBay may be in the $500 range if your lucky. then also going to need hairspring collets and the pins. the biggest problem will be and I will referenced something here the horological journal a publication of the British horological Institute in August 2007 has a really nice article on hairsprings. They made a discovery oh dear there is a hairspring crisis? In the past hairsprings were made exactly as the table shows and they were available. simplistically the Swiss keep consolidating in their manufacturing slowly make what they actually need versus generic. This means rather than making all the hairsprings in the table hairspring companies only manufacturing now for the watch manufacturers. If your watch manufacturer you can order your specific spring vibrated yourself. Or supplier balance wheels to the hairspring manufacturer and they will vibrate the hairspring for you. This means there are no more new CGS hairsprings to purchase only new old stock if you can find it.

then the skill set the vibrator hairspring is not exactly an easy skill set the learn. Plus this is a tiny watch makes things much more complicated. So can it be done yes could somebody do it for you may be there used to be people doing hairspring vibrating but they've slowly gone away.

The thing to do is look at eBay the movements come up from time to time sometimes priced quite reasonable other times with really silly high prices. You wait long enough you should build get a movement and  hopefully the hairspring will be in better condition than the one you have now.

Then no you cannot take a hairspring off another balance wheel it's only relatively recently where they can make things precise enough with a floating regulator and the stud you can get away with that everything before that was vibrated specifically to that balance wheel slid hairspring is not available separately. Although if you have timing screws you can fudge a little bit and perhaps get away with a substitute hairspring but it's still going to be really really close. Then if it really is a chronometer that hairspring is a different grade than the generic watch but this is a really tiny little watch and would anyone really notice whether it's keeping chronometer timekeeping are not anyway?

[Nucejoe]

Hi @JohnR725 . Though access to a vibrating tool be nice.

I do vibrate the existing balance with a compatible hairspring right inside the watch, lucky we have TG or your regulare vibrograph, so I check the rate on tg and keep cutting off of the hairspring till I hit the right beat. Normally by two cutting tries.

Watchweasol needs some basic info to find the datasheet, either to correct caliber or a member of its generation, then there is a good chance to read the CGS off of the datasheet. A hairspring of close CGS will vibrate to the beat.

I have had success in many cases without access to vibrograph or tg,  just have to time the piece on bench instead. 

Finding the CGS through extrapolatiin is admittedly a pain though.

Your thoughts. 

Regards