Eta 2834-2 beat error problems

[Bopmd]

Hello again,

I recently cleaned and oiled an ETA 2834. After this I started regualting the watch. I've been at ut for hours and the best I can get is 3.3ms. The timegrapger does show 2 staight lines some of the time, but ofter it's all over the place. It not magnetic and the spring looks to be in good condition. Does anyone know how to fix this? Also amplitude is either 320 or 170 degrees on the timegrapher.

Thank you.

[jdm]

6 minutes ago, Bopmd said:

I recently cleaned and oiled an ETA 2834. After this I started regualting the watch. I've been at ut for hours and the best I can get is 3.3ms. The timegrapger does show 2 staight lines some of the time, but ofter it's all over the place. It not magnetic and the spring looks to be in good condition. Does anyone know how to fix this? Also amplitude is either 320 or 170 degrees on the timegrapher.

It's likely 170° all the time, but being so low is confusing the Chinese algorithm.

Sometime is touching or loose, likely in the balance / escapemente area, but it could be elsewhere too. Time to apply the usual stepped / excluding diagnostic.

Edited July 18, 2020 by jdm

[watchweasol]

Hi  I would seek another method of checking the watch,  or checking the timegrapher with another watch to confirm jdm's suspicions.  If the Known watch performs ok on the timegrapher with the expected result then the watch is at fault, Which then confirms the suspicion.

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, Bopmd said:

The timegrapger does show 2 staight lines some of the time, but ofter it's all over the place.

as a reminder if the timing machine has dots all over the place then the numbers mean nothing. When Chinese machines work they work really well when they don't work they like to give you numbers I guess to make you feel good but if you can't see you something that resembles the waveform of lines the numbers are worthless.

1 hour ago, Bopmd said:

ETA 2834

then is this a clone or a real eta? Also does it have a – number after it and what kind a regulation system does it have like perhaps etachron?

 

[Bopmd]

4 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

as a reminder if the timing machine has dots all over the place then the numbers mean nothing. When Chinese machines work they work really well when they don't work they like to give you numbers I guess to make you feel good but if you can't see you something that resembles the waveform of lines the numbers are worthless.

then is this a clone or a real eta? Also does it have a – number after it and what kind a regulation system does it have like perhaps etachron?

 

Sorry, I meant 2834-2. It's a real ETA from a 90s Mido. Im not familiar with regulation systemts, but it's the same as all other 28xx movement I've owned.

 

I suspected that I had used too much oil and I cleaned the Pallets. After installing it the beaterror went to 1.5ms, amplitude to 150 and the timegrapher draws a consistant line that matches with the numbers.

I am not an expert, but it looks like the balance swings with more amplitude than 150. Could it be wrong? I havent changed the lift angle.

[jdm]

3 minutes ago, Bopmd said:

I am not an expert, but it looks like the balance swings with more amplitude than 150. Could it be wrong? I havent changed the lift angle.

The machine is very unlikely to get the amplitude wrong. Of course you can test it with another watch. If this is the first or one of the first watches that you reassemble don't be put off, unfortunately is not that easy to get everything right.

[Bopmd]

13 minutes ago, jdm said:

The machine is very unlikely to get the amplitude wrong. Of course you can test it with another watch. If this is the first or one of the first watches that you reassemble don't be put off, unfortunately is not that easy to get everything right.

I've been tinkering with watches for about year or so. I have cleaned and oiled several watches with good results. Sometimes I mess up the oiling, though and I believe that might be a part of the problem since it got signifigantly better after removing some. Maybe the oil is stealing the power from the spring and weakens the amplitude? I think I'll redo the watch.

[jdm]

7 minutes ago, Bopmd said:

.Maybe the oil is stealing the power from the spring and weakens the amplitude?

I don't think so.

7 minutes ago, Bopmd said:

I think I'll redo the watch.

It would be good if you at least try to identify the problem instead of going by rote.

Listen to the actual sound

Closely examine balance and escapement

Check pallet fork springiness from one side to the other

Check train sprinning freedom 

These are just some checks, more would be descrine in so many of the postings here and in watchmaking books.

[Bopmd]

On 7/18/2020 at 11:36 PM, jdm said:

I don't think so.

It would be good if you at least try to identify the problem instead of going by rote.

Listen to the actual sound

Closely examine balance and escapement

Check pallet fork springiness from one side to the other

Check train sprinning freedom 

These are just some checks, more would be descrine in so many of the postings here and in watchmaking books.

Ok, thanks. The ticking sounds off. I'll look into it.

[watchweasol]

Hi  I am not familiar with the timegrapher but most of these type of machines have an audio out put, If yours has then listen to the amplified ticks and determine wether the beat is ok    ie  tick...tock  and not  tick.......tock.

[jdm]

24 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

Hi  I am not familiar with the timegrapher but most of these type of machines have an audio out put, If yours has then listen to the amplified ticks and determine wether the beat is ok    ie  tick...tock  and not  tick.......tock.

As explained many times, the audio output on from the Chinese timegraphers is not the actual one, but a digital syntheses useful for nothing.

[watchweasol]

Hi not much good then.

[jdm]

13 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

Hi not much good then.

Indeed. it should be possible to reroute the mike input to the speaker, if some electronically able member could help?

Edited July 21, 2020 by jdm

[watchweasol]

I would Imagine it would be possible to build a splitter which takes in the mich input,  amplifies it and two outputs one to the Timegrapher and one to an external speaker enabling simultaneous audio and visual indications .   It could have a switch to disable the Audio output and a potentiometer to control volume.       Food for thought.Needs thinking about.

[jdm]

18 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

  It could have a switch to disable the Audio output and a potentiometer to control volume. 

Machine has the switch but is in software so would need an addtional gate to control the output based on the presence of signal. I would be happy with a fixed, reasonable volume and no external parts.

[JohnR725]

5 hours ago, watchweasol said:

I am not familiar with the timegrapher but most of these type of machines have an audio out put, If yours has then listen to the amplified ticks and determine wether the beat is ok    ie  tick...tock  and not  tick.

usually on timing machines at least of the modern ones witschi most of the time does have the ability to turn on the audio output. unfortunately day do not put this feature on every single one other timing machines which is irritating.

1 hour ago, watchweasol said:

I would Imagine it would be possible to build a splitter which takes in the mich input,  amplifies it and two outputs one to the Timegrapher and one to an external speaker enabling simultaneous audio and visual indications .   It could have a switch to disable the Audio output and a potentiometer to control volume.       Food for thought.Needs thinking about

this is another one of those unfinished projects I have. As the microphone already has a preamp timing machine has some amplification there should be possible to tap into the internal circuitry and put a small speaker amplifier with volume control making use of the power in the box.