Jump to content

Measuring Small Hand Gauges?


dpn

Recommended Posts

Hello everyone,

I continue to be very appreciative of the great advice I've received so far from this forum on a variety of topics.

Here's another hands question:

The Bergeon 30464 Hand Gauge Watchmakers Tool seems like a great tool for quickly measuring and categorizing hand gauges. Its smallest measurement is 0.30 mm, however.

How does one measure smaller second hand gauges? The best thing I can think of would be to use a micrometer on the hand pinions, but given the small difference between, say, a 0.27mm gauge and a 0.25 gauge, there seems to be a lot of room for error with a micrometer.

Thanks, as always, for any suggestions!

-- Dan

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I use plug gages, which are in 0.01mm increments, but they are expensive. If you need to measure the hole in the hand and can't measure the pivot (and a micrometer will easily differentiate between 0.25 and 0.27mm, you can easily see a difference of 0.005mm), you can use a small broach. Slide the hand on until it stops, and measure there. There's a little interpolation to do, but you will be very close.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you all for the great info! I really appreciate it. Sorry if these questions are stupid -- I like to think things out and talk them out to make sure I understand the correct approach to use on a given problem. I have very little hands on technical experience, and so things that may be obvious or intuitive to an experienced horologist baffle me without additional explanation.

If anyone is curious, the reason I'm asking this question is because I'm starting the process of learning how to heat blue hands. It turns out that plain steel wristwatch hands are very difficult to obtain cheaply, but there is a near limitless supply of old steel pocketwatch hands to practice with. As I practice with these, it'd be fun to measure them and see if I can assemble matching sets in dimensions suitable for use on modern wristwatch movements. 

Edited by dpn
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, saswatch88 said:

When in doubt always go .01 smaller. You can always broch from there.

Thanks for the info @saswatch88. Would you explain what you mean by this -- stretching out the small tube on the hand? 

Forgive me if this is a stupid question; I'm a complete newbie, and basic tools and techniques are unfamiliar to me.

I've ordered a Bergeon 30464 and a quality digital caliper, so I should be squared away for measurement.

I will be buying a mishmash of old pocket watch hands, as they're the most cost-effective way of obtaining steel hands for bluing practice. I plan on measuring those hands to see whether I can find any matching sets that fit currently-available wristwatch movements, both in diameter and length. If it's possible to expand or contract a hand diameter using affordable tools, I'll be ecstatic.

All the best,

Dan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the info [mention=5720]saswatch88[/mention]. Would you explain what you mean by this -- stretching out the small tube on the hand? 

Forgive me if this is a stupid question; I'm a complete newbie, and basic tools and techniques are unfamiliar to me.
I've ordered a Bergeon 30464 and a quality digital caliper, so I should be squared away for measurement.
I will be buying a mishmash of old pocket watch hands, as they're the most cost-effective way of obtaining steel hands for bluing practice. I plan on measuring those hands to see whether I can find any matching sets that fit currently-available wristwatch movements, both in diameter and length. If it's possible to expand or contract a hand diameter using affordable tools, I'll be ecstatic.
All the best,
Dan

Bergeon makes sets of cutting broaches. They are 5 sets for different size ranges. They are expensive but cheap broaches dont work well. Look for a used vintage assortment. A hand holder is needed as well. The broaches will cut some of the metal off inside of the tube expanding it. Just be careful when using them I usually only do maybe one or two twists and rechecking fitment. You can very easily cut too much off.9ecc58eef379eecd18a34be6b4621d3e.jpg
a25efe350cdaf28a46d7e5591273c6c7.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@saswatch88

Thank you so much for that great explanation, those photos, and those tips. This is super cool. I'll definitely research this more, now that I know what the correct terminology and tools are. I'm in your debt.

Is there a method or tool for doing the opposite -- reducing the tube diameter? I imagine that some sort of very precise and controlled crimping of the tube would work, but I also imagine that attempting to crimp a small seconds tube down by, say, 0.02 mm with a set of tweezers would be disastrous.

There would also be hand height concerns, of course, but I'm just thinking about whether a hand tube could be reduced to fit on a smaller pinion. Maybe that's the wrong approach too -- maybe its easier to try to increase the diameter of a pinion to fit a specific diameter hand?

Thank you in advance for your continued patience here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[mention=5720]saswatch88[/mention]  Thank you so much for that great explanation, those photos, and those tips. This is super cool. I'll definitely research this more, now that I know what the correct terminology and tools are. I'm in your debt.

 

Is there a method or tool for doing the opposite -- reducing the tube diameter? I imagine that some sort of very precise and controlled crimping of the tube would work, but I also imagine that attempting to crimp a small seconds tube down by, say, 0.02 mm with a set of tweezers would be disastrous.

There would also be hand height concerns, of course, but I'm just thinking about whether a hand tube could be reduced to fit on a smaller pinion. Maybe that's the wrong approach too -- maybe its easier to try to increase the diameter of a pinion to fit a specific diameter hand?

Thank you in advance for your continued patience here.

 

 

some people use a cannon pinion tightener or nail clippers to crimp a Sweep seconds tube, It can’t be disastrous if you don’t know how much force to use. You can very easily just break the tube right off or over crimp it. tweezers has never worked for me. Personally I would not suggest any of these methods unless you are a seasoned watchmaker. I would just invest in some cutting broaches and a hand holder. I find that vintage sets work very well they do not make the steel like they used to. I bought a set from Esslinger for about $25 and they suck. For the same price you can get yourself a vintage set. And the hand holder is about 10 to 15 bucks. 

No the adjustment must be done at the hand not the Pinion. As far as height goes that would mean staking on a new tube and that Requires a much higher level of experience. Even I can’t really do it it’s very difficult. You can shorten the tube just know that you are going to cramp the end when you cut it or file it down. And then you’ll need to use rounding broches to round it back out without removing any metal and widening the inside diameter of the tube.

 

 Keep that in mind that there are two types of broaches: cutting broaches and rounding/smoothing broaches. Smoothing is better used with chronograph hands after cutting, Pivot whole shaping and cleaning.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Getting back to the issue which is us guys repairing or just enjoying horological exploits. The big worry now is how sound is Cousins as company going forward. The of cost if this 8 year legal battle will be astronomical. Cut backs will happen noticed already how the Cousins catalogue is half its size this year. The main supplier going out of business will hit the UK horological community in a big way.    On the Brexit issue it was about a sovereign country being able to make its own laws and trade with any country in the world. I cannot see what was wrong with this. For those who wish to re join the cost would be very high indeed.
    • Yes, it's the same (old) song and it's getting worse & worse;  
    • 🤔 leaving the EU meant that UK was no longer part of the convention and have already been turned down an independent reapplication. I'm pretty sure courts have to be held in Switzerland in this case. There will be a lot more watches stashed away in draws  tbh, folk wont be able to afford to maintain them. Cheap watches will be bought and top end watches by folk with plenty of cash that can pay for service and repair. The expensive once in a lifetime gifts and everything else inbetween will be at the forgotton when they stop working. I know i was being a numpty, get used to it 😄 Anybody that knows will boycott them, but besides repairers who will know. Nope will never buy one, i made that decision as soon as i learnt about this. 
    • although not in this case.  It was the Lugano Convention and its deficiencies that allowed a Swiss court decision in the first place.  This isnt really a Brexit issue at all.  A decision that affects both the EU and the UK should never have been heard in Switzerland. I bet the authorised service centres in the UK are pretty pleased.  It's a massive shame, though; I believe watch owners should be able to choose to have their watch serviced by whoever they trust.
    • Hi guys I think that old hippy is correct, it opens the gates for china to manufacture aftermarket spare parts. considering that they already do work on behalf of the Swiss I guess this decision gives the a little more legitimacy to tool up and I am sure they will take advantage of the situation either with or without the blessing of the Swiss watch industry  Having read about the protectionist machinations of the Swiss in the history of Europe they were the only ones to get fat at everybody else’s expense. I think the outcome could have been guessed at but ,  fair play to Cousins UK for standing up to them.  Now the question,  will everybody boycott Swiss watches and Swatch, no way they will still fill their coffers.  Me I stick with the Japanese once renowned for cheap shitty watches who came good through industrial effort and don’t for get the Russians that most dismiss as low grade crap. Wouldn’t buy a swatch product ever how about you all.? a
×
×
  • Create New...