How to wind or release power when ratchet wheel and click are hidden

[pubudeux]

Hey all!

I have a question today that came up for me when disassembling/reassembling an Elgin 6s pocket watch (pictured below).

On most movements I've seen so far, the ratchet wheel and screw go on top of the barrel and arbor facing up on the train side (back) of the movement. The exposed screw allows you to wind the mainspring and along with releasing the click control release of power.

On this movement the click is in a groove sitting under the barrel complete. The barrel would seem to me to be "face down" compared to other movements. I can't see or get to the click as there is a bridge set on top of the barrel.

Is this just the result of a cheaper or more simplistic type of movement or is there some other way to get around this? 

[Nucejoe]

Would you show the other side of the movement?

[pubudeux]

10 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

Would you show the other side of the movement?

Sure, here it is!

You can see the bottom pivot of the barrel at 6 o. clock near the center.

Edited July 10, 2020 by pubudeux

[Nucejoe]

So the click isn't on the rocker arm side? 

You plan a full disassembly?

Edited July 10, 2020 by Nucejoe
or near rocker arm, can't find where it sits

[Nucejoe]

You can always release barrel power through the fork,  Remove balance and cock, fork bridge screw, insert a took pick in spoke of a gear to keep it from turning, lift the fork bridge and lift the fork out.

Normally with the old rocker arm, you need to turn the crown towards winding to relieve torque on the clcik, release the click off of ratchet teeth and let crown free to unwind.

[pubudeux]

22 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

So the click isn't on the rocker arm side? 

You plan a full disassembly?

Not sure what is meant by "rocker arm?"

I have disassembled and re-assembled this one a couple times. The click spring, click, and ratchet wheel are all seated on the main plate, barrel placed on top of them and then barrel bridge placed on top of that. With that setup, not sure if the click can be manipulated?

In this case, winding is more of an issue for me than releasing power, as I received this movement with no stem. Looks like I will need to find a way to engage the winding pinion without a proper stem.

[Nucejoe]

You see the big screw in second picture( dial side) ?  It is holding the rocker arm, rocks to wind position and to set position. You will find three gears mounted on it.

[pubudeux]

Just now, Nucejoe said:

You see the big screw in second picture( dial side) ?  It is holding the rocker arm, rocks to wind position and to set position. You will find three gears mounted on it.

Ah, so no the click is not on the rocker arm side unless I'm missing something. I managed to wind it without a stem by physically holding the rocker arm to engage the ratchet wheel rather than motion works and rotate the winding pinion with a screw driver.

There is a visible spring on the dial side but I believe that may be the setting lever spring? Not sure, but it seems to me like what is missing from my winding/setting mechanism is 1) a stem and 2) a mechanism for switching position between winding and setting.

Next time I will look for a more complete movement.

[MrRoundel]

If you have the Chicago Watchmaking School set, video or hard copy, you might find your answer on page 5 of chapter 5. There they show an Elgin 18s full-plate watch that has the click accessed through the side of the watch. I'd be looking there. If you think you've found it, give your let-down key a clockwise twist and watch for the movement of the click. A piece of small pegwood might get in there to let it down. If not, use whatever fits. Just make sure you have a good hold on the let-down key before committing. Good luck.

 

[JohnR725]

11 hours ago, MrRoundel said:

Elgin 18s full-plate watch that has the click accessed through the side

usually on American pocket watches were the click is not visible there will be a hole on the side near the mainspring barrel. With your bench key in and a little pressure the click will release. then with something inserted into the hole I usually use a screwdriver. You can hold the click out then the bench key slowly rotating your fingers and let the power off.