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"Каталог часов, 1972 - А.И. Токмаков.pdf"  from -> here <- ( page 10 onwards ) shows the newer HA variant of the movement(s). 

Page 23 even shows a tuning fork movement similar to the Bulova.

 

image.thumb.png.9cd2b64e6a4dcf8a27f8ca42de5f77d1.png

The first actual picture of this dial style is in the 1985 Catalogue (around page 97).
I'm pretty sure there are a large number of styles that were available but not shown in the earlier catalogues however, so I'm still not sure if this proves anything.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/k7x3sqhjzv8wau1/Каталог часов Ракета%2C 1985 - Vremeks.pdf?dl=0

 

Edited by AndyHull
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On 11/13/2022 at 8:51 AM, Neverenoughwatches said:

Haha the Sekonda, are you copying me mate ? Would you mind letting me know any issues with it and a tg reading for comparison. Mine is not getting above 210 ' , still original mainspring but it looked fine. A tad of friction in the train though.

This latest one has pretty much everything wrong with it. I'll post a few pics once I have it running. It turns out what I assumed was paint, is actually evidence of some kind of liquid damage. It is probably saveable, but it has turned out to have a few more problems than I had expected. Currently I have the pallet fork sitting waiting for the new shellac to dry. I hope to get it all back together tomorrow.

Edited by AndyHull
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RIMG0190.thumb.JPG.ed6f9f75ac44e7addc18a613909e4315.JPG

I have the mechanism all back together and running.

 

RIMG0186.thumb.JPG.c3e24a2a45e90b07a21611e2d952e349.JPG

This is the after picture.

RIMG0183.thumb.JPG.693667af3a6e8dfc3e2e3f94c35bd6af.JPG

.. and here is the before with the jewel sticking up at a jaunty angle.

RIMG0185.thumb.JPG.fb58051830daf89ff1c066b29044881c.JPG

The small jam pot of brown liquid is shellac dissolve in alcohol. I have a large bottle of this which I use from time to time as a woodworking finish.

RIMG0180.thumb.JPG.418e4d9240165bec497436675a7bf8d1.JPG 

There was a slight kink in the hairspring, and some white corrosion build up around the impulse jewel which I needed to address to get it to oscillate correctly. As you can see it is now nice and clean and the hairspring is sitting pretty nearly perfectly. 

Most of the other issues were cosmetic, or liquid damage related. Rust on the stem, in the keyless works, on the dial side plate and so forth.
I'll let the mechanism run for a few hours and check it is still in beat and running well, then hopefully case it up and pop a strap on it this evening.

 

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RIMG0171.JPG

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This final picture is what greeted me when I first opened the lid. Note the small scratches on the wheels, suggesting someone else has had a poke around in there before me.

Edited by AndyHull
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On 11/14/2022 at 3:56 PM, AndyHull said:

"Каталог часов, 1972 - А.И. Токмаков.pdf"  from -> here <- ( page 10 onwards ) shows the newer HA variant of the movement(s). 

Page 23 even shows a tuning fork movement similar to the Bulova.

 

image.thumb.png.9cd2b64e6a4dcf8a27f8ca42de5f77d1.png

The first actual picture of this dial style is in the 1985 Catalogue (around page 97).
I'm pretty sure there are a large number of styles that were available but not shown in the earlier catalogues however, so I'm still not sure if this proves anything.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/k7x3sqhjzv8wau1/Каталог часов Ракета%2C 1985 - Vremeks.pdf?dl=0

 

Thanks Andy. I will have a good read of all that later. 👍

2 hours ago, AndyHull said:

The small jam pot of brown liquid is shellac dissolve in alcohol. I have a large bottle of this which I use from time to time as a woodworking finish

Did you use the shellac straight from the jar and let dry out ? No heat ?

2 hours ago, AndyHull said:

There was a slight kink in the hairspring.

Would you say that this may have a slight kink in the hairspring or a slight hairspring in the kink. 😅

20221118_151350.jpg

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1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Did you use the shellac straight from the jar and let dry out ? No heat ?

Correct. I was tempted to dry it front of the electric fan heater, but the prospect of launching it into the middle of next week by accident stopped me from trying, so I just let it harden over night. I applied the shellac with the tip of my smallest oiler. Raketa had been pretty liberal with the original application, so I applied what I thought was a similar amount. It doesn't look too pretty, but it works perfectly.
 

1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Would you say that this may have a slight kink in the hairspring or a slight hairspring in the kink. 😅

BoyScoutKnots.jpg.8c75bf5dabcb3e3ad1869d4267416e99.jpg


I think you might need this.

Edited by AndyHull
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1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Thanks Andy. I will have a good read of all that later. 👍

Did you use the shellac straight from the jar and let dry out ? No heat ?

Would you say that this may have a slight kink in the hairspring or a slight hairspring in the kink. 😅

20221118_151350.jpg

Boiiinng

20221118_154813.jpg

Edited by Neverenoughwatches
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3 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Boiiinng

Well on the plus side, it does appear to be all there, and not cracked. It still looks pretty "interesting" though. A "five minute job" if ever there was one... so we may see you in a week or two. 😋 No swearing now.. you'll frighten the horses.

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5 minutes ago, AndyHull said:

Well on the plus side, it does appear to be all there, and not cracked. It still looks pretty "interesting" though. A "five minute job" if ever there was one... so we may see you in a week or two. 😋 No swearing now.. you'll frighten the horses.

Haha the same horses that stampede through the middle of it. No at 55 I'm past all that now, patience of a Saint, nerves of steel and hands as steady as a rock. A cup of char and a piece of cake will have it sorted.  #The hairspring hero of horology #. I'm only giving it ten mins though as I'm still busy going through the balance staffs. Its one of 11 art deco tank watches that arrived this afternoon that all qualify here 36 quid for the lot. I always have to have the back off them as soon as they arrive, this is what no. 8 greeted me with. I felt so sorry for it i had to set to and at least relieve it of a little pain. I'll post them up later when ive had a play. 

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4 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I felt so sorry for it i had to set to and at least relieve it of a little pain.

RIMG0192.thumb.JPG.4e048f35ea389088ddb8662677de778f.JPG

Sounds familiar. Here is that much maligned Sekonda Ракета (on the right) with its many injuries addressed and all cased up and ready to wear.

The one on the left is my current daily driver.  

RIMG0195.thumb.JPG.2f11b947e7a717f04e5a88d6434d3511.JPG

.. and here, it joins a few others in one of the USSR display cases. I think I'll need to purchase another watch display case for the USSR branch of the 404 club.

There are some others in another display case. That one is mix of mechanical and a few interesting USSR era jewelled quartz watches from the likes of Bostok and Luch. 

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1 hour ago, AndyHull said:

RIMG0192.thumb.JPG.4e048f35ea389088ddb8662677de778f.JPG

Sounds familiar. Here is that much maligned Sekonda Ракета (on the right) with its many injuries addressed and all cased up and ready to wear.

The one on the left is my current daily driver.  

RIMG0195.thumb.JPG.2f11b947e7a717f04e5a88d6434d3511.JPG

.. and here, it joins a few others in one of the USSR display cases. I think I'll need to purchase another watch display case for the USSR branch of the 404 club.

There are some others in another display case. That one is mix of mechanical and a few interesting USSR era jewelled quartz watches from the likes of Bostok and Luch. 

Very nice Andy 👏 they all look great on display, rather jealous mate. I need to stop faffing around with a ridiculous amount of balance staffs and a mangled hairspring and get back to mine. I couldnt resist and gave it an hour then another hour with some tweezer shaping and tool making. All i can say is the hairspring is round but not perfectly consent, consentricit, concentrickery, not perfectly equal coils and centered but its getting there. Little bugger was almost turned in on itself, getting it back to flat is not easy. With nearly each twist i take out it creates a new horizontal bend, i think ive been around it a hundred times now. Ignore the shadows it looks worse than it actually is.

20221118_222242.jpg

3 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Very nice Andy 👏 they all look great on display, rather jealous mate. I need to stop faffing around with a ridiculous amount of balance staffs and a mangled hairspring and get back to mine. I couldnt resist and gave it an hour then another hour with some tweezer shaping and tool making. All i can say is the hairspring is round but not perfectly consent, consentricit, concentrickery, not perfectly equal coils and centered but its getting there. Little bugger was almost turned in on itself, getting it back to flat is not easy. With nearly each twist i take out it creates a new horizontal bend, i think ive been around it a hundred times now. Ignore the shadows it looks worse than it actually is.

20221118_222242.jpg

 

1 hour ago, AndyHull said:

RIMG0192.thumb.JPG.4e048f35ea389088ddb8662677de778f.JPG

Sounds familiar. Here is that much maligned Sekonda Ракета (on the right) with its many injuries addressed and all cased up and ready to wear.

The one on the left is my current daily driver.  

RIMG0195.thumb.JPG.2f11b947e7a717f04e5a88d6434d3511.JPG

.. and here, it joins a few others in one of the USSR display cases. I think I'll need to purchase another watch display case for the USSR branch of the 404 club.

There are some others in another display case. That one is mix of mechanical and a few interesting USSR era jewelled quartz watches from the likes of Bostok and Luch. 

Todays 404s . Got the price wrong it was actually 39.11. Strangely enough all the balance staffs seem good.the Ingersol in the middle is my favourite. 

16688115949694133096307374232092.jpg

Edited by Neverenoughwatches
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Nice haul. Top row third from the right has an interesting case. Does it have a make? Looks a little like a 1930s Bulova I fixed up a while back.

26 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Little bugger was almost turned in on itself, getting it back to flat is not easy. With nearly each twist i take out it creates a new horizontal bend, i think ive been around it a hundred times now.

Its looking pretty good considering the plate of noodles you started with.

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2 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

All i can say is the hairspring is round but not perfectly consent, consentricit, concentrickery, not perfectly equal coils and centered but its getting there. Little bugger was almost turned in on itself, getting it back to flat is not easy

Nice job. You should be able to get it even this weekend. 

It might be easier to unpin the stud to work on it. But that would be an adventure in itself.

Edited by HectorLooi
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2 hours ago, AndyHull said:

Nice haul. Top row third from the right has an interesting case. Does it have a make? Looks a little like a 1930s Bulova I fixed up a while back.

Only one of them  had a visible maker's mark on the rachet wheel. Hopefully the rest of them have more under the bridges or under the dial.  Yes that one is very Empire state buildingesk. 

1 minute ago, HectorLooi said:

 

It might be easier to unpin the stud to work on it. But that would be an adventure in itself.

I'm ok with that, had to do it a few times on a little Oris when i first started, it broke twice at the stud. I must be odd as i quite enjoy hs manipulation. Its not actually that difficult when you get going. Its about picking just the right spot, knowing what to take out and what to leave till last. Do some of your external bends first otherwise it folds in on itself. I found it much easier to do most of the horizontal bends first and the odd vertical bend to pull it flat. The vericals are the hardest to do, your tweezers need to grip perfectly and in the right pllane or you have another horizontal bend to sort out. Good fun though, just remember not to tense up to prevent that hot knife in the back of the neck feeling.

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RIMG0229.thumb.JPG.337267a2c0dce506147bd776198caf9e.JPG

That array of tank watches from@Neverenoughwatches spurred me into action to take a look at  Wittenaur 10T based tank with a 10K RPG case that I picked up for a penny short of two quid. It is unfortunately missing the sub second hand, and had a broken mainspring. 

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The movement is a bit of a mystery. Wittenaur used Longines and Record movements, and in fact Longines acquired both Record, and Wittenaur. However I cannot find an exact match for this particular movement, although it does share some characteristics with the Longines 10L. I'm not sure of the date of it either. My best guess is probably the late 1930s or 1940s

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I've addressed the mainspring and given it a quick service. Ignore the slightly scruffy strap in the wrong size. I don't appear to have any suitable 16mm for it at the moment.

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15 minutes ago, AndyHull said:

RIMG0229.thumb.JPG.337267a2c0dce506147bd776198caf9e.JPG

That array of tank watches from@Neverenoughwatches spurred me into action to take a look at  Wittenaur 10T based tank with a 10K RPG case that I picked up for a penny short of two quid. It is unfortunately missing the sub second hand, and had a broken mainspring. 

RIMG0239.thumb.JPG.54038b801e6c39fa085f0410107bcced.JPG

The movement is a bit of a mystery. Wittenaur used Longines and Record movements, and in fact Longines acquired both Record, and Wittenaur. However I cannot find an exact match for this particular movement, although it does share some characteristics with the Longines 10L. I'm not sure of the date of it either. My best guess is probably the late 1930s or 1940s

RIMG0242.thumb.JPG.0e73006f4b952e66959f39480b416825.JPG

I've addressed the mainspring and given it a quick service. Ignore the slightly scruffy strap in the wrong size. I don't appear to have any suitable 16mm for it at the moment.

I did some research a while back on the connection between them. If i remember rightly Wittnauer became Wittnauer- longines, but were not part of Longines. Wittnauer was just a major importer of Longines for a long time. I'm guessing they allowed Wittnauer to use their name to promote both brands. £1.99 🙆‍♂️  quite handy sometimes having no dial labelling. Nice lugs.

31 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I did some research a while back on the connection between them. If i remember rightly Wittnauer became Wittnauer- longines, but were not part of Longines. Wittnauer was just a major importer of Longines for a long time. I'm guessing they allowed Wittnauer to use their name to promote both brands. £1.99 🙆‍♂️  quite handy sometimes having no dial labelling. Nice lugs.

Ah refreshed my memory . Wittnauer was bought in 1936 by Hella Deltah a pearl company of all things. The name was changed to Longines-Wittnauer due to Wittnauer's very long dealings with Longines but apparently a seperate company to and not owned by Longines. Sources say subsidiaries of Longines-Wittnauer were VC and Le coultre.  Sold again in the 60s and then to Bulova in the 90s now owned by  Citizen.  Crazy 🤦‍♂️

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On 11/8/2022 at 7:50 AM, mbwatch said:

Okay my first 404 submission: One US dollar (plus $4 shipped) for a Diantus EB8800 pin pallet movement watch. I've seen these often for sale and sold for low prices, but usually in poor condition. This one was sold as a non runner but looks like it was never worn. It's in perfect condition except for a scratch on the caseback that looks like it was done with a case knife. I opened it up to put a touch of 9010 on the escape exposed escape wheel pivot and it jumped to life, keeping perfect time over the last 12 hours. I might keep it for myself because I do like the colors but after I service it maybe I'll resell and double my investment.

496317427_Screenshotfrom2022-11-0807-43-33.png.d8c11492a07f3882d860a8e9d3e6470a.png

I had a chance to take this apart and clean it yesterday. The movement was spotless and went back together very easily. I enjoyed working on this EB 8800; after doing a pile of Timex pin pallet movements I didn't expect this to be so pleasant to assemble. It's even simple to get it into beat. So I feel like I got my one dollar's worth on this piece.

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The EB 8800 can be a little fiddly sometimes, but certainly a lot less so than a Timex. They are robust, they were immensely popular so  there are loads of them out there if you need spares. I know they more than a little agricultural, but they work reasonably well and they appear to be pretty easy to bring back to life.

Edited by AndyHull
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RIMG0244.thumb.JPG.2c4272553ab5cf1b536e60e63703a11c.JPG

I picked up a bunch of ex retail display stands from ebay.

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I snagged 30 of them for six quid, which I thought was a suitable price for displaying a bunch of 404 club watches.

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They are a little scruffy in the sense that some of them still have sticky residue from the old price stickers, and some even had the original stickers still attached, so I thought why waste those. Here are eight mechanicals and one bizarracle, from the 404 club, for your amusement.

I'll clean up the rest of the sticky mess from these and probably leave them blank, although I might print a small detail card for each one I display.

Oh.. and for those of you who were wondering if I was managing to keep the new watch bench immaculately clean... well mostly, but there is a fair bit of clutter on it at the moment.

Edited by AndyHull
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Ah... its called a Shifenmei Roller Watch and it is certainly one of the quirkier modern watches in the 404 club. Not that the 404 club is short of quirky watches of course.

The company (Shifenmei) have a website here -> https://shifenmeiwatch.com/

I'm not sure who exactly produces the mechanism, as the only thing I needed to do when it arrived  was feed it with a fresh battery, so I didn't strip it down or examine it in detail.

It seems to still be in production, or at the very least some people seem to still stock it so if you want one, or something similar, or you want to see more information about it, you could try this link.

https://www.adelexpress.com/product/shifenmei-full-wooden-watches-men-roller-design-business-clock-men-quartz-watch-casual-sports-male-watches-relogio-masculino/

I'm not affiliated with either of these sources, so you proceed at your own risk.

Edited by AndyHull
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RIMG0254Corrected.thumb.JPG.9f5593d4499c50dc50ae370fd2261b72.JPG

This "F Finds" Ronda 708 based moon phase quartz arrived and got the full spruce up treatment.

It came with an incorrectly fitted battery, which was simple to remedy.

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The Ronda Service and user manuals are available for the quartz module.

Service manual -> https://www.ronda.ch/fileadmin/user_upload/Products/TA_BA/TA_Pdf/70X/TA_708_de_fr_en2.pdf

User manual -> https://www.ronda.ch/fileadmin/user_upload/Products/TA_BA/ba/7XX/BA_788.708_e.pdf

I did spend a little time scratching my head trying to work out how to set the moon phase, but it turns out this has no quick set, and is advanced by rotating the hands till it shows the correct phase, then setting the correct time (AM PM) on the hands, all with the crown at position III, then returning to position II to set the date, than back to position I to run.

Its a very elegant little dress watch, but wouldn't really appeal to the lovers of those modern garish gongs and brass frying pans as it is a relatively modest, some might say normal, size.

Edited by AndyHull
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RIMG0267.thumb.JPG.752132f7ef27158f12a42ed9beafaa2c.JPG

The Skone arrived. At 0.99p plus postage it was considerably cheaper than the scone and coffee I had in Aberfeldy on Sunday, even when you factor in a new AG4 battery. 

Its actually quite well made, although obviously it has a pretty rudimentary Chinese movement in it. There is a rather obvious manufacturing defect though. The inside of the crystal has water marks on it which I assume were factory fitted, since the watch looks brand new and unworn. 

It isn't huge, although it is obviously slightly larger than the Moon Phase I mentioned above.

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    • 🤔 leaving the EU meant that UK was no longer part of the convention and have already been turned down an independent reapplication. I'm pretty sure courts have to be held in Switzerland in this case. There will be a lot more watches stashed away in draws  tbh, folk wont be able to afford to maintain them. Cheap watches will be bought and top end watches by folk with plenty of cash that can pay for service and repair. The expensive once in a lifetime gifts and everything else inbetween will be at the forgotton when they stop working. I know i was being a numpty, get used to it 😄 Anybody that knows will boycott them, but besides repairers who will know. Nope will never buy one, i made that decision as soon as i learnt about this. 
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    • Hi guys I think that old hippy is correct, it opens the gates for china to manufacture aftermarket spare parts. considering that they already do work on behalf of the Swiss I guess this decision gives the a little more legitimacy to tool up and I am sure they will take advantage of the situation either with or without the blessing of the Swiss watch industry  Having read about the protectionist machinations of the Swiss in the history of Europe they were the only ones to get fat at everybody else’s expense. I think the outcome could have been guessed at but ,  fair play to Cousins UK for standing up to them.  Now the question,  will everybody boycott Swiss watches and Swatch, no way they will still fill their coffers.  Me I stick with the Japanese once renowned for cheap shitty watches who came good through industrial effort and don’t for get the Russians that most dismiss as low grade crap. Wouldn’t buy a swatch product ever how about you all.? a
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